[x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a time)
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Jan 25 16:11:31 PST 2021
I figured out how to translate into English!
John
On 1/25/21 6:08 PM, John Carlson wrote:
>
> Ah, no VPN required!
>
>
> John
>
>
> On 1/25/21 5:33 PM, John Carlson wrote:
>
>> Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use VPN, but first
>> I have to get on VPN
>>
>> I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate to English?
>>
>> This is the point where you steal my files? It always seems to
>> happen with VPN.
>>
>> On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
>>> Hi John,
>>> You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the experimental
>>> owncloud web interface at my vServer:
>>> (owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing, but also has
>>> calendar and contacts via WebDav)
>>> URL https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud <http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud>
>>> user name vpncal
>>> password X3D4
>>> All the best
>>> Christoph
>>> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr
>>> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>>> *An:* "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community
>>> (max. 10 connections at a time)
>>> John,
>>> Please *expect some maintenance work (short interruptions) next week
>>> Saturday (30th January).*
>>> I have now *defined an online calendar for the VPN*, to avoid
>>> flooding the mailing list.
>>> The calendar can be *easily integrated with the calendar on your
>>> Android phone* (see the green entry below!!!).
>>> Probably it is possible to integrate it with any smartphone (it uses
>>> the WebDav standard), but I haven't tried.
>>> Installation instructions:
>>> 1) Install DAVx5 on your Android smartphone (available at F-Droid)
>>> 2) Create new DAVx5 account "vpncal at lc-soc-lc.at"
>>> - URL:
>>> https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/
>>> <https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/>
>>> - user: vpncal
>>> - pw: X3D4
>>> 3) Enable and trigger the synchronization of WebCal
>>> 4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the "personal" calendar is
>>> activated for display
>>> The installation instructions will be available at
>>> https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental
>>> <https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental> soon.
>>> If you have set the synchronization correctly, then it should be
>>> possible for you to make calendar entries, too (e.g. test sessions,
>>> where you need more than 2 connections, or some specific multicast
>>> address).
>>> KR
>>> Christoph
>>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr
>>> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>>> *An:* "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
>>> connections at a time)
>>> Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi, and all interested in multiuser
>>> Being very curious to get to know, whether the "server-less mode"
>>> could really work, I was thinking about what could I contribute?
>>> I have got this tiny vServer at hoststar.at (hosted at some cloud in
>>> Germany), where I could implement a VPN for "server-less experiments".
>>> Voilá
>>> So, if you have a Windows 10 client, then what you can do:
>>> 1) Install OpenVPN Connect software (community edition) -
>>> https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/
>>> <https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/>
>>>
>>> 2) Unzip the config.zip from attachment into C:\Program
>>> Files\OpenVPN\config
>>> 3) Start OpenVPN Client
>>> 4) Connect
>>> 5) Now your client is a multihomed host with an additional network
>>> interface at 172.27.224.0/19
>>> 6) The network 172.27.224.0/19 is an island. Only people, who
>>> receive this e-mail, can connect.
>>> What is missing:
>>> a) a proof that multicast addresses work on the VPN
>>> b) an online calendar to coordinate the multicast sessions at the
>>> VPN-> I will provide this on request.
>>> KR,
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 01:34 Uhr
>>> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>>> An: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> Currently having two issues:
>>>
>>> 1) can test the VPN only with two Windows clients -> you have to
>>> create your own experience with the Linux client
>>> 2) still have to make the VPN permanent -> now the VPN has to be
>>> restarted manually after server restart.
>>>
>>> Pls. expect final answer by Saturday evening, CET.
>>>
>>> My plan:
>>>
>>> I will publish (at a hidden place):
>>>
>>> a) example configuration from Windows OpenVPN Connect client
>>> b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root certificate, which you have to trust
>>> c) x3d-public.key private key for the Web3D community (not really
>>> private)
>>> d) x3d-public.crt certificate for the Web3D community (signed by
>>> yeti -> my server will let you in)
>>> e) ta.key additional symmetric key (must be identical on client and
>>> server)
>>>
>>> Physical restriction: max. 10 connections at the same time, dynamic
>>> IP addresses from a private IPv4 range (172.27.224.0/19).
>>>
>>> The VPN will be an island - the server will not route that subnet,
>>> unless from one client to the others (hopefully including multicast
>>> packets - not yet tested).
>>>
>>> KR
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021 um 07:38 Uhr
>>> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>>> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>> I am now prepared to have a "client" of your UDP DIS server at
>>> hoststar.at. I need things like address and port, per X3D PDU nodes.
>>>
>>> If there is ssh information for reaching your server network, let me
>>> know. This is my preferred method. I do not believe I need special
>>> permission except for perhaps a new user account.
>>>
>>> I've never really used a VPN, and will probably need instructions.
>>> My experience with VPN varies "not very useful" and "OMG, my friends
>>> are going to steal my files."
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
>>> If everything works fine (and if I've understood correctly), then
>>> you can do tests with multicast IP transport, although you are
>>> geographically separated.
>>>
>>> That's what I would like to try basically
>>>
>>> --
>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>> gesendet.
>>> Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John Carlson
>>> <yottzumm at gmail.com>[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]:
>>> My friends have asked me to set up a VPN on my machine in the past.
>>> I don't really see the value of a VPN.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM Christoph Valentin
>>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]> wrote:
>>>
>>> What I am going to try is to setup a VPN with OpenVPN and my vServer
>>> at hoststar.at[http://hoststar.at <http://hoststar.at>], so we can
>>> do a test session with DIS (hopefully).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021 um 23:13 Uhr
>>> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]>
>>> An: "Christoph Valentin"
>>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
>>> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
>>> <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]>
>>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>>
>>> What I was going to do is try to get DIS from GitHub and DIS from
>>> X_ITE to talk to each other.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM Christoph Valentin
>>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]> wrote:
>>> ok
>>>
>>> let me repeat your proposal:
>>>
>>> >>>>> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS
>>> Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor.
>>> I think the first step would be to take these, see what they have in
>>> common, and go from there for deeper analyses.
>>>
>>> I think everybody agrees.
>>>
>>> So what would be the very first step (before the first step)? Assign
>>> responsibilities? Create a Wiki? Ask for official decision? Just do
>>> it? Who? What? When? Create an official backlog? Use the S&P-ARK?
>>>
>>> kind regards
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>> --
>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>> gesendet.
>>>
>>> Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb Christoph Valentin
>>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>:
>>>
>>> Not much,
>>>
>>> 1) It's another use case, which has proven it's usefulness during
>>> SrrTrains v0.01:
>>> - Customized Client Side Calculations
>>> ( sent to x3d-public in January 2014:
>>> https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>][https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>]]
>>> )
>>>
>>> 2) And an idea (which is not yet settled).
>>> - idea is to have two levels of identification:
>>> identify the sensor by "streamName" + "networkSensorId"
>>> (BS Collaborate: only "streamName"
>>> Octaga: only "networkSensorId")
>>>
>>> 1) the stream = the model = the real life entity
>>> e.g. "car"
>>> 2) the sensor nodes themselves
>>> e.g. "steering", "motor", "doors"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021 um 03:59 Uhr
>>> Von: "GL" <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com]>
>>> An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'"
>>> <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]>
>>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>>
>>> I am not sure what results you are referring to. Did I miss something?
>>>
>>>
>>> From: x3d-public
>>> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]
>>> On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin
>>> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21 PM
>>> To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>>
>>>
>>> so basically you want to ignore my results?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>> gesendet.
>>>
>>> Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL
>>> <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com]>:
>>> Christoph,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the clarifications and your general dedication. I
>>> believe that little misunderstandings should be addressed before
>>> they snowball into bigger misconceptions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > If we specify a general Network Sensor API, then content can run
>>> > with any X3D Player that supports the Network Sensor API.
>>>
>>> If you read again my last paragraph, I try to make a distinction
>>> between a multiuser client and a X3D player. In other words, the
>>> player is not necessarily the client. It appears to be a common
>>> misconception that the X3D player must also be the MU client, while
>>> in truth it really doesn't have to. For the reasons previously
>>> stated, I tend to prefer that the player does not in fact act as the
>>> client.
>>>
>>>
>>> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the
>>> X3Daemon
>>> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is precisely why I am here. I do NOT want the application
>>> protocol to be proprietary. And the fact that we still don't have a
>>> standard keeps me from moving forward, because any development
>>> efforts I make may someday have to be rewritten once we do have a
>>> standard. IOW, I am not a big fan of reworking systems. I'd rather
>>> use open standards as early in the process as possible to facilitate
>>> interoperability later.
>>>
>>>
>>> > If the protocol was specified, then I could use ANY
>>> > server with the X3Daemon Client.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ideally, systems could interoperate, though there are other factors
>>> to consider. For example avatars must login to authenticate their
>>> identity and assets, consisting of information that may or may not
>>> be available to a third party server. But yes, you get the general idea.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > It is not sufficient to specify the
>>> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. ...,
>>> > but I had the feeling that you want to
>>> > omit the specification of the protocol.
>>>
>>>
>>> Read again, I was referring specifically to network protocols.
>>> Still, at this early stage, I feel it may be a little premature to
>>> get too involved with an application protocol, that until we get a
>>> better grasp of what the requirements will be. For this reason, I am
>>> of the opinion that fields and events should be specified first.
>>> Just so that we have something to build upon.
>>>
>>> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS
>>> Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor.
>>> I think the first step would be to take these, see what they have in
>>> common, and go from there for deeper analyses.
>>>
>>> Once we have that settled, IMO, only then should we turn to discuss
>>> an application layer protocol and its ramifications. GL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: x3d-public
>>> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]
>>> On Behalf Of
>>> > Christoph Valentin
>>> > Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 5:09 PM
>>> > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list
>>> > Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>> >
>>> > Dear Gina Lauren
>>> >
>>> > Please find some feed back *inline*.
>>> >
>>> > Generally, please do not judge too hard, I'm not a native speaker
>>> and still
>>> > some of my wordings do not fit to the real intention.
>>> >
>>> > Kind regards,
>>> > Christoph
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >You want to lock in your users. That's not the spirit of open source.
>>> >
>>> > For once I was beginning to open up about the inner workings of a
>>> multiuser
>>> > system, but surprisingly, you apparently don't want to hear about
>>> it. It is
>>> > difficult to talk about open standards for a NSN if we can't refer to
>>> > actual implementations. It's not like there are a lot of them around..
>>> > [CV]: I should not have written this. However, I was a little bit
>>> > impatient, because I have been preaching for years and years that the
>>> > protocol itself must be specified. It is not sufficient to specify the
>>> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. Maybe I did
>>> not read
>>> > your words sufficiently thoroughly, but I had the feeling that you
>>> want to
>>> > omit the specification of the protocol.
>>> >
>>> > Also, who said anything about open source being a requirement? I was
>>> > actually volunteering closed source information for the benefit of
>>> an open
>>> > standard. If you can't see that I was actually "giving" something
>>> to the
>>> > community.. then perhaps I am wasting my time???
>>> > [CV]: Here I used "open source" and meant "open protocols", sorry, my
>>> > mistake. And, yes, I also "gave" a lot. Using too much time for my
>>> hobbies,
>>> > was one major reason, why my wife left us in 2015 (afterwards the
>>> SrrTrains
>>> > v0.01 project fell into hibernation mode due to lack of resources).
>>> >
>>> > Finally, if you would like to discuss an application layer
>>> protocol, maybe
>>> > look into work that has been done in the past referred to as vrtp
>>> and x3dp.
>>> > Not much, but a starting point. So far I have only heard vague
>>> comments
>>> > about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see below)
>>> > [CV]: I am sure that many people have contributed many parts of
>>> the puzzle.
>>> > Now we need somebody, who fits all together (that's not me, is it?)
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > > [CV]: I never suggested to specifiy the transport protocol
>>> (http, rtp,
>>> > > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip, xmpp, ........).
>>> >
>>> > hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what is this about???
>>> > [CV]: Let's assume, we specify an "Application Layer Protocol"
>>> (let's call
>>> > it ALP in the sense of a "working title"). Probably the ALP will
>>> consist of
>>> > the definition of a few PDUs (e.g. in XML, JSON, YAML or similar
>>> syntax).
>>> > Now we have to define, how the PDUs have to be transmitted over the
>>> > network. Will they be sent as payload in http messages (in the
>>> body)? Will
>>> > they be sent as payload in SIP messages (in the body)? Will they
>>> be sent
>>> > directly over tcp connections?
>>> > To get historically: at the beginning of the IETF they had a great
>>> > movement. You could get T-Shirts with the meme "IP over
>>> everything". IP
>>> > should connect any network with any network, building the
>>> Inter-network. So
>>> > they had to write one RFC for each L2 protocol in order to
>>> specify, how IP
>>> > has to be transported over any L2 link/network.
>>> > I am dreaming of an "ALP over everything" movement.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are members of the TCP/IP protocol family. UDP
>>> is as
>>> > >old as TCP, just simpler. SCTP is younger. It tries to merge
>>> advantages
>>> > >of both TCP and UDP and was originally invented to transport SS7
>>> protocols
>>> > >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports 64k streams per association, what
>>> perfectly fits
>>> > >to our needs, imho
>>> >
>>> > Why are you trying to lecture me about network protocols? And what
>>> is it
>>> > exactly that you are saying or not saying, I find rather
>>> perplexing and
>>> > fail to see the relevancy. Let's keep going...
>>> > [CV]: I thought you wrote "SCTP is not TCP/IP". I want to stress
>>> that SCTP
>>> > actually IS TCP/IP
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >[CV]: Actually I suggested to specifiy ONE AND ONLY ONE
>>> application layer
>>> > protocol,
>>> >
>>> > No-one is questioning this as far as I know. Isn't that precisely
>>> what we
>>> > are trying to do?
>>> > Why are you augmenting this in my comments?
>>> >
>>> > [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did not read your words sufficiently
>>> thoroughly,
>>> > but I had the feeling that you want to omit the specification of the
>>> > protocol.
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >[CV]: The API (i.e Network Sensor) must be specified to run ONE
>>> content
>>> > with ANY X3D Player.
>>> >
>>> > Let's be careful here. The X3D player does not necessarily need to
>>> have
>>> > agency over the application protocol. For example the X3Daemon client
>>> > (sorry to bring it up) is entirely separate from the player other
>>> than for
>>> > interpreting ECMAScripts and rendering the results to screen. IOW, the
>>> > X3Daemon client can theoretically run in any X3D player, regardless of
>>> > internal multiuser coding, as long as ECMAScript (JavaScript) is
>>> supported.
>>> > This makes it very easy for authors to script avatar and object
>>> behaviors,
>>> > since it provides direct access to X3D nodes. It is also a reason
>>> why we
>>> > need to define a NetworkSensor node as part of the X3D standard.
>>> > [CV]: That's exactly what I am saying: you specified your X3Daemon
>>> client
>>> > API, so a content that uses that API, can theoretically run with
>>> ANY X3D
>>> > Player (that the X3Daemon client supports). If we specify a
>>> general Network
>>> > Sensor API, then content can run with any X3D Player that supports the
>>> > Network Sensor API.
>>> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the
>>> X3Daemon
>>> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary. If the protocol was
>>> specified,
>>> > then I could use ANY server with the X3Daemon Client. It's similar
>>> with BS
>>> > Contact and BS Collaborate.
>>> > Most customers are very sensitive about getting locked in. No
>>> matter if
>>> > open source or closed source. We (my employer) made this
>>> experience with
>>> > railway operators, too.
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > GL
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________________________
>>> > * * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * * *
>>> > * * Virtual Reality -- Application Programming * *
>>> > * 3D Net Productions
>>> 3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com
>>> <http://3dnetproductions.com>[http://3dnetproductions.com
>>> <http://3dnetproductions.com>]] *
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
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