[x3d-public] X3D meeting minutes 20 AUG 2021, C C++ C# and Mantis
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Wed Sep 1 19:42:01 PDT 2021
Sorry, meant .h and the mailer messed up when I hit send.
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 9:39 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, so the .h’s in
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages/c/X3DLib/
>
> Are up-to-date?
>
> Thanks for checking!
>
> John
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 9:30 PM Myeong Won Lee <myeongwonlee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> Concerning getters and setters, the Annex C example sources for C and C++
>> include all of them in the header files (abstracts.h and concretes.h are
>> also included in the source).
>> Because I submitted all of them to Don *in 2019-07-16*, he may have all
>> the files.
>> Otherwise, please see the link below:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ccuydK5BTmYJLiI-H9CDxqCSKTj5i_R6?usp=sharing
>>
>> One thing that I missed is that I should convert the Korean readme to
>> English one.
>> This will be updated soon, and so please find the readme files in a few
>> days.
>>
>> Concerning C#, we didn't include the header files because C# does not
>> have such header files as in C and C++.
>> The C# files include classes and functions directly.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Myeong
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 1:46 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed on developing setters and getters for patterns previously
>>> discussed on the subject. That is, we have setters provided for
>>> construction (import) of an object passed to the constructor. At that
>>> point, the object constructed by should be encapsulated. Only methods
>>> passed an exporter may extract data from the constructed object.
>>>
>>> But OO may be a bit passé these days? I don’t know how to achieve such
>>> a thing in the C SAI, but I need to look. I was told by a patterns guy
>>> that setters and getters were used for legacy systems???
>>>
>>> The idea of the importer/exporter pattern is to provide a class
>>> hierarchy of importers: VRMLImporter, XMLImporter, JSONImporter,
>>> GenericImporter and similarly, a class hierarchy for Exporters. While
>>> building such classes by hand is numbingly difficult, I feel with code
>>> generation from X3DUOM, the task could be relatively easy. Again, I have
>>> not done something like this in C.
>>>
>>> Discussion and better solutions appreciated!
>>>
>>> Examples especially helpful!
>>>
>>> Yes, I know about JavaBeans and POJOs.
>>>
>>> I’m all for being overruled. Show me something the achieves
>>> encapsulation better. I know about accessType on fields. Is this how we
>>> design the encapsulation?
>>>
>>> The reference I would use for Importer/exporter is “Holub on Patterns.”
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 10:54 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John, thanks for excellent progress. Apologies that I was unable to
>>>> meet today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it is prudent for us to check in the current master copy
>>>> provided by Dr. Lee so that we have a baseline. Any subsequent changes
>>>> will be discernible via diff comparisons.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Recommend that we intentionally _*not*_ look at Script nodes for a
>>>> while.
>>>>
>>>> 1. First we have to make sure that basic nodes (parent-children
>>>> relationships) and simple fields are represented satisfactorily, with
>>>> intuitive accessors (get and set methods.
>>>> 2. Then look at statements.
>>>> 3. Then look at <field> definitions, usable by both prototypes and
>>>> scripts.
>>>> 4. Then contained script code within a script node (similarly for
>>>> shader nodes).
>>>> 5. Then simple prototype declarations.
>>>> 6. Then more-complex prototype declarations with IS/connect and
>>>> embedded Script nodes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have plenty of examples to work with. Going from simplest towards
>>>> more complex (a..f above) will help us maintain clarity throughout.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to meeting sometime and pursuing next steps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> v/r Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, August 30, 2021 6:31 PM
>>>> *To: *Myeong Won Lee <myeongwonlee at gmail.com>; Richard F. Puk
>>>> <puk at igraphics.com>
>>>> *Cc: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; Nicholas Polys
>>>> <npolys at vt.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] X3D meeting minutes 20 AUG 2021, C C++ C#
>>>> and Mantis MetadataDate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don suggested a meeting for checking in the new 19777-{3,4,5} working
>>>> drafts. If people are interested, send me times when you are available.
>>>> Dick, Don, since you are the maintainers, one of you should be there—I
>>>> think the Mantis currently says Don. Myeong or I can make zips available.
>>>> I think they may be checked into my repository.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do not know if more review time is necessary before checking in? I
>>>> for one have not done much reviewing beyond structure. One may want to
>>>> search through the folders to see if the string “Java” is found within the
>>>> c/c++/c# working draft files. That is, do an explorer and/or grep search.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From what I saw of the .h files, it looks quite excellent. We can
>>>> start with any code generation. If Myeong doesn’t give us the .h files
>>>> and we can’t otherwise scrape the HTML or WD, perhaps code generation of
>>>> SAI from X3DUOM is indicated? We have done this for Python and Java. I
>>>> don’t know if Myeong is code generating the .h code or not. I’ve laid out
>>>> a couple of scenarios for stylesheets, but I have not worked on making
>>>> these a reality yet. It would probably be good for me to lay out the
>>>> alternatives in a presentation so we can choose a path forward which is
>>>> most maintainable for second and third parties.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nicholas, does your team intend to provide a full library beyond the
>>>> interface? If so, will they be working on an implementation stylesheet?
>>>> I guess in C/C++ the interface is separate from the implementation, so it
>>>> would be possible to have coordinated implementation?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could someone who has used Script nodes with c,c++,c# fill me in on how
>>>> to do it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 8:50 AM Myeong Won Lee <myeongwonlee at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear John,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your efforts in setting up the GitHub repository.
>>>>
>>>> In the folders, I think that the "CD" folders may not be necessary
>>>> because we have restarted with WDs and the CDs are old versions of the WDs.
>>>> I submitted the CDs last year, but they were not approved as CD texts,
>>>> and so I resubmitted them as WDs.
>>>> We should work on the WD texts.
>>>> How about deleting the CD folders?
>>>> In addition, if WD-originals are old versions, it would be OK to delete
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> In summary, I think that the folders should be as follows:
>>>>
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Myeong
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 6:30 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Myeong,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your efforts on the C/C#/C++ standards!
>>>>
>>>> My understanding from Don is that we want the current WD versions of
>>>> the 19777-3, 19777-4 and 19777-5 standards checked into GitHub, somewhere
>>>> below this folder: https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWeb3DConsortium%2FX3D&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C5c8fa760fe724ed4a28708d96c1ed524%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659702854783384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2FdxJ0uvHzdL0trwWw7PmZjS8gh5hhYQ5hmX0N3ZVGss%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> (If you need assistance, let me know, it's quite confusing. We'll probably
>>>> have to do things like rename the folders once unpacked from the zips and
>>>> move them from). Issues with the standards should go into Mantis. Google
>>>> Drive/Docs, while important for private sharing, are not suitable for group
>>>> editing of standards. GitHub has adequate protections in the X3D
>>>> repository. With your permission, I will check your Google shared zips
>>>> into GitHub unpacked. Probably in the folders here that you identify:
>>>>
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-CD
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-CD
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-CD
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD
>>>>
>>>> ( Please confirm that the WD folders are correct).
>>>>
>>>> These are the original folders that where already there that are moved
>>>> out of the way.
>>>>
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD-original
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD-original
>>>> ./ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD-original
>>>>
>>>> I currently all these changes ready for a git add, commit, push. I
>>>> have done 1) ready and a little bit of aiming. I need approval to fire.
>>>>
>>>> I will enter a Mantis ticket for these changes.
>>>>
>>>> ===========================================================
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, according to Don, we need to move discussions to the
>>>> x3d-public mailing list. If issues are sensitive, then there's the x3d
>>>> mailing list. Here's how to subscribe to x3d-public:
>>>> http://www.web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>>
>>>> Issues with source code artifacts should be can be recorded here:
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/discussion/
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fp%2Fx3d%2Fdiscussion%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C5c8fa760fe724ed4a28708d96c1ed524%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659702854783384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=a2kbNlGgRnfyzq2vIRTCskJZJ86AIkW4FjlWvGDuh7s%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>> Source code artifacts should go here in addition:
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages/
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fp%2Fx3d%2Fcode%2FHEAD%2Ftree%2Fwww.web3d.org%2Fx3d%2Flanguages%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C5c8fa760fe724ed4a28708d96c1ed524%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659702854793322%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Ia6pbyNz4IS4sNkF5Z0nBhmjoaMTARX6RRfivxzGKdY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> I can facilitate uploads to there. Myeong, with your permission, I will
>>>> archive the old code (many months old) to "legacy" under the main x3d-code
>>>> folder.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any open questions, please post to the x3d-public list
>>>> (respond to this email).
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe source code changes require Mantis.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On 8/26/21 9:34 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Again: it would be useful to have to have a design page that discussed
>>>> programming patterns and open issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again: GitHub is master version, being aware that differences exist but
>>>> are not identified isn’t very useful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again: Hoping we can “get on the good foot” in how this effort is
>>>> pursued. This is how the Java, JSON, Python and Turtle language bindings
>>>> built towards consensus and were all successfully accomplished.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all efforts, hopefully they can become productive and
>>>> fruitful by working deliberately together.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> all the best, Don
>>>> --
>>>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent: *Friday, August 20, 2021 12:36 PM
>>>> *To: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>;
>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org; Myeong Won Lee <myeongwonlee at gmail.com>; GPU
>>>> Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] X3D meeting minutes 20 AUG 2021, C C++ C#
>>>> and Mantis MetadataDate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> NPS WARNING: *external sender* verify before acting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don, Myeong, Doug,
>>>>
>>>> I noticed that there are no virtual methods in the C++ spec SAI I got
>>>> (examples, yes, except for ~SAIExample5()) on drive.google.com
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C5c8fa760fe724ed4a28708d96c1ed524%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659702854793322%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=8tYOmA5FuhO9WJVbL6hWoq4FYDLei3F7ow9hWLLMdf0%3D&reserved=0>.
>>>> I do not think they are necessary, but may be useful when defining
>>>> subclasses for people who want to subclass from the SAI abstract and
>>>> concrete nodes. https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/virtual-function-cpp/
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.geeksforgeeks.org%2Fvirtual-function-cpp%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C5c8fa760fe724ed4a28708d96c1ed524%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659702854803280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=cMJMC%2FwdzHqgHMa%2BChxhHJFHfqeoG0AXx3mgJdvov6E%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> Note that most methods are virtual in Java, without the keyword. I think
>>>> virtual methods are slower than regular methods, last I heard. But I'm
>>>> pretty sure all destructors should be virtual? I've forgotten. Some
>>>> discussion whether destructors should be present in the spec is welcome.
>>>> The virtual destructor ensures that the superclass destructor is not called.
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be useful to have Doug Sanden review the abstract and
>>>> concrete class and structs before making big decisions.
>>>>
>>>> I am also unsure why the first parameter to many C function pointer
>>>> declarations is void* instead of passing a pointer to a struct type?
>>>>
>>>> In all cases, C/C++/C# it might be useful for setter functions and
>>>> members to return this or *this, instead of void. We need set functions
>>>> to return this for creating builders I'm fairly sure. (In C SAI, the first
>>>> parameter is called this, it's not a keyword that I know of).
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad I am reviewing this! We'll see if anything else pops into my
>>>> head after I send the message!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On 8/20/21 1:46 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Attendees John Carlson, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Very useful discussion today, we reviewed proposed language
>>>> bindings
>>>>
>>>> 1. 19755- 3, C
>>>> 2. 19755- 4, C++
>>>> 3. 19755- 5, C#
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We discussed whether special treatment is deserved for exposing these
>>>> draft specifications. 22 Web3D members have access to them now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Language bindings need compilable interfaces for ISO, and at least two
>>>> implementations for Web3D.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Close inspection of each shows that a handful of example programs are
>>>> available for test development, and could be used as basis for
>>>> X3dToCCppCsharp.xslt conversion stylesheet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Close inspection of detailed abstract interfaces, and detailed
>>>> node/statement implementations for libraries are available (with some
>>>> omissions). Each appears quite similar to the others. Regeneration via
>>>> X3DUOM of compilable “header” or interface files matching the source code
>>>> in the HTML is possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> C and C++ language compilation is easily possible using gcc compiler.
>>>> Compilation of C# is not so clear, some open-source implementations are
>>>> available. Once initial compilation of headers is accomplished, further
>>>> scrutiny and possible evolution of design patterns would be
>>>> straightforward. We’ll use gcc on the next round since it is part of our
>>>> build infrastructure already.
>>>>
>>>> 1. GCC, the GNU Compiler Collection https://gcc.gnu.org
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgcc.gnu.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C5c8fa760fe724ed4a28708d96c1ed524%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659702854803280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=aX4r%2FxVhW3U%2BqomrVVvztrz8zCv9bLLa7cA3ny3Cry0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 2.
>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26078437/why-does-gcc-support-java-and-not-c-sharp
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstackoverflow.com%2Fquestions%2F26078437%2Fwhy-does-gcc-support-java-and-not-c-sharp&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C5c8fa760fe724ed4a28708d96c1ed524%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659702854813255%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=UadYVe93UvlWPFaN9Z4Ez19GcEIZeDcVtCLNpVrtwyk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have enough that immediate sharing of shared specifications can be
>>>> deferred until broader discussion is warranted. Sharing of generated code
>>>> will help, and that does not have to be restricted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are concerned about personnel availability, but will keep working on
>>>> it step by step.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We will welcome all help and participation as the work proceeds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Mantis issue progress is persevering steadily each week.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Mantis 1218 for creating a MetadataDate or MetadataTime node
>>>> needs to be deferred to X3D4.1. Meanwhile we might an example scene
>>>> demonstrating how to do such representations with existing nodes, workably
>>>> across all forms of X3D. E.g. pseudocode examples:
>>>>
>>>> <MetadataDouble name=”time” value=“0.0”
>>>> reference=”Unix reference of time with start at 1 JAN 1970”/>
>>>>
>>>> <MetadataString name=”TuesdayLunch” value=“24-AUG-2021-1200-pacific”
>>>> reference=”XSD, XML Schema Definition”/> <MetadataString
>>>> name=”ThankGoodnessItsMonday” value=“23-AUG-2021-1200-pacific”
>>>> reference=”ISO 8601 Time standard”/>
>>>>
>>>> Any scene of examples would be fully detailed and cross-referenced for
>>>> clarity.
>>>>
>>>> Mantis 1218: 07.2.4 MetadataDate - New node type, or new data type
>>>>
>>>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1218
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Other mantis issues are being fixed and addresses each week.
>>>> Membership has value.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone for a worthy effort today. Have fun with X3D! 8)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2021 12:27 AM
>>>> *To:* x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>> *Cc:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>>> <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* X3D meeting agenda 20 AUG 2021, C C++ C# and Mantis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regular weekly call once again this week, Friday 10-1100 Pacific on
>>>> Web3D conference line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We will review our approach to C C++ C# encodings and also ongoing
>>>> Mantis progress. Additional topics welcome.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> all the best, Don
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>>
>>>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>>
>>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>>>
>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>>
>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Myeong Won Lee, PhD, Professor
>>>> Faculty of Computer Science, U. of Suwon
>>>> Hwaseong, Gyeonggi-do, 18323 Korea
>>>> E-mail) myeongwonlee at gmail.com, mwlee at suwon.ac.kr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Myeong Won Lee, PhD, Professor
>> Faculty of Computer Science, U. of Suwon
>> Hwaseong, Gyeonggi-do, 18323 Korea
>> E-mail) myeongwonlee at gmail.com, mwlee at suwon.ac.kr
>>
>
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