[x3d-public] An annotations example and project

Mon Oct 10 06:01:30 PDT 2022

Okay, I checked out the app, and I don’t see that the annotations are
attached to the astronaut.  This may be a key point.   That is, the hardest
part will be converting the annotation to HAnim space.   Yes, we will have
to add the annotations to the scene.

Also, the annotations may be always facing the camera?

I suggest we separate the task into two parts, loading the annotations into
the scene, and loading the astronaut into the scene.

Hmm!

I’m limiting keyboard time to a minimum.   Is this worthy of using my
desktop, and who is doing what?

John

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:28 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> I suggest we use a pre-converted Astronaut.glb, if someone can find
> something.   Even an Astronaut.gltf would be preferable.
>
> Once we have that working, start work on a .glb version.
>
> MTC,
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 7:33 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>    - Stepping backwards to binary is like giving up the progress we’ve
>>    made since Assembly was created.
>>
>>
>>
>> True, I was thinking it may be relatively easy to reuse the Astronaut.glb
>> in x3d but now looking at it deeper I see that it is not that easy not only
>> because the blob is some binary form but that the data I want is mostly
>> trapped in the blob. There aren’t that many triangles and there is careful
>> use of color but, I don’t yet see how to extract the x3d code needed for
>> one or more child shapes to compose the figure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Still, I think there are examples like this in gltf where the asset is
>> some data that has been all or partially processed using inputs from
>> standard x3d fields, and that any gltf asset has a counterport as an x3d
>> field or the result of computing using x3d fields.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, the alternative for this is
>>
>> 1. Just figure how to load the .glb into x3d player and then show how to
>> build an annotation system in that space or a child space.
>>
>> 2. Extract the mesh and materials to x3d user code and get control of the
>> thing. (I know bufferviews must mean soething, but how to understand
>> “>õ÷²=Ô”)
>>
>>
>>
>> I can’t see, for now, how to extract the triangles (I can see them in 3D
>> Builder, but can’t modify or save in a readable format.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 8, 2022 2:35 PM
>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> *Cc: *Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>; X3D-Public
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] An annotations example and project
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not interested in binary formats, but i have used EXI (ASCII)
>>  converters to and from JSON.   See X3DJSONLD.
>>
>>
>>
>> JSON schemas might be converted with MapForce.  UAYOR.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps there’s some interest in STL and PLY formats?
>>
>>
>>
>> AFAIK, .glTF appears to be different than .x3d, and is likely closer to
>> .dae.  I am unsure about .glb, i have not approached it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stepping backwards to binary is like giving up the progress we’ve made
>> since Assembly was created.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps we should consider AssemblyScript?  OBJ is preferable to binary.
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 3:42 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Vincent and John and All, since John and others have been working on ways
>> to get x3d transcoded back and forth with json and now typical .glb (GL
>> Transmission Format Binary file as Standard json) with prescribed names and
>> data form that either are the same or a bit different than standard x3d
>> Node names and Field names and X3DField and X3DArrayField data types.
>> Except of course, those gl asset blobs that represent binary data that
>> would be computed and almost ready to be executed by an x3d player.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Is that too simple?
>>
>> First, does the .glb carry data that would be appropriate to import
>> directly with maybe name changes or slightly rearranging or completing data
>> for use in a field of a standard x3d field?
>>
>> Second, are there forms of .glb data, especially for animations, blobs
>> that could be expected to be the same as machine-ready input created by x3d
>> browser?
>>
>> Third, I think not likely but please let me know, are there Standard .glb
>> data fields that are not used by x3d? Like before the great material
>> features added in v4?
>>
>> Fourth, any other categories?
>>
>>
>>
>> That is why the Astronaut.glb file could be very interesting to test.
>> This is an opportunity to start with a successful yet static model with
>> overlaid authoring interactivity, including some binaries of big data, to
>> be moved into x3d space, into a more complete authoring environment,
>> provide some animations and improved, maybe even integral rather than
>> overlaid, interactive features.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, all we need is that graph that shows matching (direct usability)
>> between .glb fields and x3d fields. A good AI might construct this table
>> from schemas. In particular, what basic scenegraph of x3d nodes can receive
>> this particular Astronaut.glb data directly?
>>
>> Well, also for some glb fields, how to complete or otherwise synthesize
>> x3d syntax from glb data.
>>
>> Finally, to be complete, how an x3d player could use some glb essentially
>> precomputed data to allow the x3d player to provide some functionality,
>> like animations for an object without performing some internal computing
>> steps. If we can add some x3d features and deliver it as .glb …
>>
>>
>>
>> So yes, this is reasonable example and thanks for finding it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 5, 2022 9:47 AM
>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>; X3D-Public
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] An annotations example and project
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not seeing the error message in viewing the astronaut.glb file, with
>> Microsoft 3D Viewer at version 7.2107.7012.0, but I do see the error with
>> 3D Builder
>>
>>
>>
>> I haven't examined the internal structure of the astronaut.glb data, but
>> it doesn't surprise me that it is  single mesh item.
>>
>>
>>
>> The spirit of this annotation project would be to display the annotations
>> from an externally loaded json structure without regard to the detailed
>> structure of the 3D asset itself.
>>
>>
>>
>> Vince
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 5, 2022, at 12:02 PM, Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >            • the underlying asset is a glTF asset
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Astronaut.glb when downloaded, runs windows 3D Builder with a click and
>> allows simple editing. Shows error ‘one or more items invalidly defined.
>> Click to repair’ The entire thing is a single ‘item’
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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