[x3d-public] change to cycleTime perhaps no longer ignored , example ?

Andreas Plesch andreasplesch at gmail.com
Wed Aug 16 12:32:19 PDT 2023 

Holger's example
https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://rawgit.com/create3000/Library/main/Tests/Components/Time/CycleInterval.x3d

adapted to x3dom scripting

https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/c7259d23c499b059b8fed9845b24a2f377659471/CycleInterval.x3d

also works fine.

That's great because it means only a small patch adjusting startTime
was needed to implement the new behaviour in x3dom for many use cases.

Cheers, Andreas


On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 2:11 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I found that it should be ok to adjust the startTime after
> cycleInterval was changed. The only time when startTime_changed is
> emitted is directly after a set_startTime was received. So the
> adjusted startTime would never be emitted and cannot disturb any
> processing. Presumably a script could access the startTime field at
> any time but it is not unreasonable to expect that it may have changed
> along with a cycleInterval change given the spec. algorithm for
> fraction.
>
> Clicking on the column in the example now also tests if pauseTime and
> resumeTime still works since resumeTime also needs to maintain
> fraction for resuming:
>
> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/6ceca45348203b6faf8d8563d8fee7aa490e56b9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>
> https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/6ceca45348203b6faf8d8563d8fee7aa490e56b9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>
> This uses event utilities in their typical verbose fashion.
>
> Seems to work fine.
>
> A subtlety is that in the example only the animation clock is paused
> while the interval clock continues to run in the background. This
> means that after resuming the cycleInterval may change at any moment
> (unless one keeps track manually of the 7s period change period).
>
> I think I will also adapt Holger's example to xdom scripting for
> testing, and that should suffice for providing the feature in a x3dom
> dev. version.
>
> Any feedback or thoughts always welcome,
>
> Andreas
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 9:09 AM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > https://gist.github.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e#file-dynamiccycleinterval-x3d
> >
> > has the rotating column example in a format which can work both in x3dom and in x_ite:
> >
> > https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/c04865919178d0b26f49d49982bc31a3da56c2e9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
> >
> > https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/c04865919178d0b26f49d49982bc31a3da56c2e9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
> >
> > It has simple type converter scripts with directOutput for both. x3dom ignores the x3d script and x_ite ignores the dom script and the onoutputchange attribute. In addition, the x_ite playground strips out all the non-parseable nodes in the editor, so the file appears more tidy. Everything else is the same.
> >
> > The type converter scripts do not actually do anything since the Javascript SAI type for both SFFloat and SFTime is the same (numeric).
> >
> > The example works for both. view3dscene probably would have to have a version with castlescript. Thinking about adding pause and resume when clicking on the column.
> >
> > I will see if I can adjust cycleTime instead of startTime to maintain the fraction after a cycleInterval change.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 11:23 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry, for some reason I keep typing cycleTIme when I mean cycleInterval.
> > >
> > > Good idea to adjust cycleTime and use cycleTime to calculate fraction
> > > although it deviates slightly from the spec. algorithm (but gives the
> > > same result).
> > >
> > > Since cycleTime is updated anyways during the next cycle, I think it
> > > is ok to update it during the same cycle when cycleInterval was
> > > changed since it would not be emitted anyways until the start of the
> > > next cycle.
> > >
> > > I ran into another problem, the lack of suitable SFTime event sources
> > > to route to cycleTime.
> > >
> > > In order to come up with the simplest possible test scene for changing
> > > cycleInterval, I was hoping to find a way to feed cycleInterval a
> > > suitable SFTime value without using a script. I was hoping to use
> > > TimeTrigger but TimeTrigger only emits the absolute current time
> > > (seconds after 1970). Also all other sources of SFTime events I could
> > > find emit absolute time values except for elapsedTIme. But it would be
> > > necessary to wait a full cycle (say 7s) every time such an SFTime
> > > event is needed so this is not useful.
> > > Finally, there is cycleInterval itself which is [in, out] but is only
> > > emitted when it is changed and never otherwise. So this is also not
> > > useful.
> > >
> > > This means it is only possible to change cycleInterval in a useful way
> > > with a Script node.
> > >
> > > Most other input fields of any node, probably all fields, can be
> > > usefully modified without a Script node, for good reason.
> > >
> > > Should X3D also have a convenient source for duration type SFTime values ?
> > >
> > > Low impact proposals for sources of relative (small in size) time
> > > SFTime events could be:
> > >
> > > - add a field to TimeTrigger SFTime [in,out] triggerValue, same as in
> > > IntegerTrigger, which can hold a custom value.
> > > - emit a cycleInterval event when a TimeSensor becomes active along
> > > with isActive. This way a TimeSensor can become something like a
> > > TimeTrigger
> > >
> > > Higher impact would be:
> > >
> > > - a new TimeSequencer node
> > > - a new TimeInterpolator node (too strange probably but could be used
> > > for strange time compression or dilation effects)
> > > - a new type converter node which can convert SFFloat to SFTime,
> > > should be easy to implement but could have unforeseeable impact.
> > >
> > > For the time being I think this means that I will add a type converter
> > > script to my earlier test example, both for x3dom type scripts and x3d
> > > type scripts.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Andreas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 6:42 PM Holger Seelig <holger.seelig at yahoo.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recalculate the last cycleTime new (yes really outpuOnly cycleTime):
> > > >
> > > > cycleTime = currentTime - fraction * cycleInterval
> > > >
> > > > From this time point you can calculate fraction as well:
> > > >
> > > > fraction = (currentTime - cycleTime) % 1.0
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Holger
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Holger Seelig
> > > > Leipzig, Germany
> > > >
> > > > holger.seelig at yahoo.de
> > > > https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/
> > > >
> > > > Am 15.08.2023 um 23:37 schrieb Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > I forgot the cycleTime is actually of type SFTime, not SFFloat. So
> > > > ScalarInterpolator would not work, although x3dom does not enforce the
> > > > type.
> > > >
> > > > Back to the drawing board, using TimeTrigger now, or perhaps
> > > > elapsedTime from a TimeSensor to feed into cycleInterval.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Holger, for the test scene. Great to see. Will try to come up
> > > > with a simple scene without a Script node. How do you maintain the
> > > > fraction after changing cycleInterval ?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > -Andreas
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 3:41 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Developing a test scene uncovered that the requirement to continue
> > > > smoothly on the same fraction after a cycleInterval change appears to
> > > > require a change to the startTime field value. An unintended
> > > > consequence, perhaps ?
> > > >
> > > > Details:
> > > >
> > > > Here is a simple test scene for dynamic changes to cycleTime based on
> > > > a vrml2 source book scene for OrientationInterpolator:
> > > >
> > > > https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/22a7b7f13bd597b55f136cee96a3b30747e14931/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
> > > >
> > > > For X3D3.3 the scene is expected to show a rotating column at constant
> > > > speed. For X3D4.0 the scene is expected to show a  rotating column
> > > > which switches speed every 5 seconds without stuttering or resets.
> > > >
> > > > Above includes a first, rough x3dom implementation (in the Scene,
> > > > javascript allows redefining almost anything) which at least shows the
> > > > changes in animation speed but is not successful at maintaining the
> > > > correct fraction to smoothly continue after a change.
> > > >
> > > > Let's see. The fraction is elapsedTime/cycleInterval. This means that
> > > > either elapsedTime will need to change with a change to cycleInterval
> > > > or that startTime will need to change. Since elapsedTime is derived
> > > > from the current time and startTime this only leaves startTime.
> > > >
> > > > new_fraction = old_fraction
> > > > new_fraction = elapsedTime/new_cycleInterval
> > > > elapsedTime - new_fraction * new_cycleInterval
> > > > time - startTime = new_fraction *  new_cycleInterval
> > > > startTime = time - new_fraction *  new_cycleInterval
> > > >
> > > > I think it is safe to change startTime but it will also change
> > > > elapsedTime for the remainder of the cycle. Not sure what to do about
> > > > that. Also there may be scenes which somehow rely on startTime not
> > > > being changed. But the algorithm for calculating fraction in the spec
> > > > really requires startTime to change when cycleInterval changes if the
> > > > goal is to maintain the fraction. Is this a matter for the spec. to
> > > > address to remain internally consistent ?
> > > >
> > > > https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/181894e010f35d242f9f24cf39478e941bccf234/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
> > > >
> > > > does adjust the startTime in that way and it does work to continue
> > > > smoothly with the same fraction after the speed change. Not sure if
> > > > there are implications for pausing and resuming. Probably worth adding
> > > > to the test scene, as well as enabling and disabling.
> > > >
> > > > I guess the alternative is to keep an internal effective startTime for
> > > > fraction calculation which may be a bit messy.
> > > >
> > > > I also tried briefly what happens when cycleTime changes every frame,
> > > > eg. at the same pace as Timesensor fractions are generated which also
> > > > seemed to work after the startTime adjustment.
> > > >
> > > > -Andreas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:18 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It appears that a question on x3d-public back in 2016 was the trigger
> > > > for the change:
> > > >
> > > > https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2016-November/thread.html#start
> > > >
> > > > It involves the x3d-svg-html "rosetta stone" page but that is not
> > > > really suitable as a focused test scene.
> > > >
> > > > Since this is a new feature there are probably no existing examples. I
> > > > may try to generate a pure X3D one showing a bouncing sphere:
> > > >
> > > > A sketch:
> > > >
> > > > "SENSOR" TouchSensor
> > > > "POSITION" Transform
> > > >  "BALL" Shape
> > > >    ..
> > > > "CLOCK" TimeSensor
> > > > "MOVER" CoordinateInterpolator
> > > > ROUTE CLOCK.fraction_changed to MOVER.set_fraction
> > > > ROUTE MOVER.value_changed to POSITION.position
> > > > #Begin of cycleInterval switching without a script
> > > > #Use ScalarInterpolator to emit SFFloat (there is no ScalarSequencer)
> > > > "INTERVAL5" ScalarInterpolator keyValue="5.0"
> > > > "INTERVAL1" ScalarInterpolator keyValue="1.0"
> > > > ROUTE INTERVAL5.value_changed to CLOCK.set_cycleInterval
> > > > ROUTE INTERVAL1.value_changed to CLOCK.set_cycleInterval
> > > > "Use Timers to trigger
> > > > "TIMER5" TimeSensor loop=true enabled=false
> > > > "TIMER1" TimeSensor loop=true enabled=false
> > > > ROUTE TIMER5.fraction_changed to INTERVAL5.set_fraction
> > > > ROUTE TIMER1.fraction_changed to INTERVAL1.set_fraction
> > > > #Use BooleanToggle and BooleanFilter to control activity
> > > > "NEGATER" BooleanFilter
> > > > "TOGGLER" BooleanToggle
> > > > ROUTE SENSOR.isActive to TOGGLER.set_boolean
> > > > ROUTE TOGGLER.toggle_changed to NEGATER.set_boolean
> > > > ROUTE TOGGLER.toggle_changed TIMER5.set_enabled #on/off TIMER5
> > > > ROUTE NEGATER.inputeNegate TIMER1.set_enabled #off/on TIMER1
> > > >
> > > > Is there an easier way to send a SFFloat to cycleInterval without a
> > > > script node ?
> > > >
> > > > Thinking about it may be better to avoid all the event utilities in an
> > > > example and just switch continuously between speeds:
> > > > ...
> > > > #Begin of cycleInterval switching without a script
> > > > "INTERVAL1OR5" ScalarInterpolator key='0 0.5 0.5 1' keyValue='1 1 5 5'
> > > > ROUTE INTERVAL1OR5.value_changed to CLOCK.set_cycleInterval
> > > > "SPEEDCLOCK" TimeSensor cycleInterval=5 # =3 for more challenging test
> > > > ROUTE SPEEDCLOCK.fraction_changed to INTERVAL1OR5.set_fraction
> > > >
> > > > This brings up if it will be necessary in the spec. to define
> > > > behaviour for the case when cycleInterval receives a new value which
> > > > is the same as the existing value ? Probably not since the proposed
> > > > language only covers actual changes implying that nothing should
> > > > happen if there is no actual change.
> > > >
> > > > -Andreas
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 10:46 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
> > > > <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for pointing out the error with CD1 urls in X3D Tooltips, which eluded prior search/replace.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now fixed.  Correct current url prefix follows, sourceforge commit and web3d.org deploy will happen later today.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The older behavior can be considered defunct and rectified by specification.  Devising an example that explicitly shows such correct behavior is a good idea.  All candidates welcome from any author.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for pursuing this important interoperability consideration…  we want duck models to consistently walk, talk, and look like a duck.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not sure what is going on with the following url, will investigate further.  Probably an early (and now unintended) redirect.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > all the best, Don
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu
> > > >
> > > > Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149
> > > >
> > > > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of Andreas Plesch
> > > > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 6:56 PM
> > > > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> > > > Subject: [x3d-public] change to cycleTime perhaps no longer ignored , example ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/time.html#TimeSensor
> > > >
> > > > (as linked from tooltips page)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > has the change that resetting the value of cycleTime of an active TimeSensor in v.4-CD1 does what is probably expected rather than being completely ignored which was the old behaviour.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is there an example scene somewhere which demonstrates that change, for testing purposes ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A bouncing sphere which changes its frequency over time, perhaps ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This proposal may have been taken out since
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/time.html#TimeSensor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > does not have the change ?  In that case, apologies for the confusion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Andreas
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Andreas Plesch
> > > >
> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > x3d-public mailing list
> > > >
> > > > x3d-public at web3d.org
> > > >
> > > > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andreas Plesch
> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andreas Plesch
> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andreas Plesch
> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > x3d-public mailing list
> > > > x3d-public at web3d.org
> > > > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andreas Plesch
> > > Waltham, MA 02453
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andreas Plesch
> > Waltham, MA 02453
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Plesch
> Waltham, MA 02453



-- 
Andreas Plesch
Waltham, MA 02453

More information about the x3d-public mailing list