[x3d-public] change to cycleTime perhaps no longer ignored , example ?

Wed Aug 16 13:44:56 PDT 2023

Ah, this one does change animations without user input. Terrific!  x3dom
editor: dynamic cycleInterval (andreasplesch.github.io)
<https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/6ceca45348203b6faf8d8563d8fee7aa490e56b9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d>

Thanks!

John

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 3:42 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Questions:  Can you change animations without user input or scripts?
>
> Thanks, great examples.
>
> JOhn
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 2:15 PM Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> What a great lesson, Thanks Andreas. Is it too early to ask if result is
>> pretty much the same if new set of keys and/or a set of keyValues are sent
>> in live?
>> Say I want to change the motion from constant rotation to a path where it
>> spins faster for part of the rotation and slower for the rest?
>> That is fun and nlce demo of proto behavior.
>> Joe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Aug 16, 2023 11:12 AM
>> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] change to cycleTime perhaps no longer ignored ,
>> example ?
>>
>> I found that it should be ok to adjust the startTime after
>> cycleInterval was changed. The only time when startTime_changed is
>> emitted is directly after a set_startTime was received. So the
>> adjusted startTime would never be emitted and cannot disturb any
>> processing. Presumably a script could access the startTime field at
>> any time but it is not unreasonable to expect that it may have changed
>> along with a cycleInterval change given the spec. algorithm for
>> fraction.
>>
>> Clicking on the column in the example now also tests if pauseTime and
>> resumeTime still works since resumeTime also needs to maintain
>> fraction for resuming:
>>
>>
>> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/6ceca45348203b6faf8d8563d8fee7aa490e56b9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>>
>>
>> https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/6ceca45348203b6faf8d8563d8fee7aa490e56b9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>>
>> This uses event utilities in their typical verbose fashion.
>>
>> Seems to work fine.
>>
>> A subtlety is that in the example only the animation clock is paused
>> while the interval clock continues to run in the background. This
>> means that after resuming the cycleInterval may change at any moment
>> (unless one keeps track manually of the 7s period change period).
>>
>> I think I will also adapt Holger's example to xdom scripting for
>> testing, and that should suffice for providing the feature in a x3dom
>> dev. version.
>>
>> Any feedback or thoughts always welcome,
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 9:09 AM Andreas Plesch wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> https://gist.github.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e#file-dynamiccycleinterval-x3d
>> >
>> > has the rotating column example in a format which can work both in
>> x3dom and in x_ite:
>> >
>> >
>> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/c04865919178d0b26f49d49982bc31a3da56c2e9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>> >
>> >
>> https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/c04865919178d0b26f49d49982bc31a3da56c2e9/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>> >
>> > It has simple type converter scripts with directOutput for both. x3dom
>> ignores the x3d script and x_ite ignores the dom script and the
>> onoutputchange attribute. In addition, the x_ite playground strips out all
>> the non-parseable nodes in the editor, so the file appears more tidy.
>> Everything else is the same.
>> >
>> > The type converter scripts do not actually do anything since the
>> Javascript SAI type for both SFFloat and SFTime is the same (numeric).
>> >
>> > The example works for both. view3dscene probably would have to have a
>> version with castlescript. Thinking about adding pause and resume when
>> clicking on the column.
>> >
>> > I will see if I can adjust cycleTime instead of startTime to maintain
>> the fraction after a cycleInterval change.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 11:23 PM Andreas Plesch wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Sorry, for some reason I keep typing cycleTIme when I mean
>> cycleInterval.
>> > >
>> > > Good idea to adjust cycleTime and use cycleTime to calculate fraction
>> > > although it deviates slightly from the spec. algorithm (but gives the
>> > > same result).
>> > >
>> > > Since cycleTime is updated anyways during the next cycle, I think it
>> > > is ok to update it during the same cycle when cycleInterval was
>> > > changed since it would not be emitted anyways until the start of the
>> > > next cycle.
>> > >
>> > > I ran into another problem, the lack of suitable SFTime event sources
>> > > to route to cycleTime.
>> > >
>> > > In order to come up with the simplest possible test scene for changing
>> > > cycleInterval, I was hoping to find a way to feed cycleInterval a
>> > > suitable SFTime value without using a script. I was hoping to use
>> > > TimeTrigger but TimeTrigger only emits the absolute current time
>> > > (seconds after 1970). Also all other sources of SFTime events I could
>> > > find emit absolute time values except for elapsedTIme. But it would be
>> > > necessary to wait a full cycle (say 7s) every time such an SFTime
>> > > event is needed so this is not useful.
>> > > Finally, there is cycleInterval itself which is [in, out] but is only
>> > > emitted when it is changed and never otherwise. So this is also not
>> > > useful.
>> > >
>> > > This means it is only possible to change cycleInterval in a useful way
>> > > with a Script node.
>> > >
>> > > Most other input fields of any node, probably all fields, can be
>> > > usefully modified without a Script node, for good reason.
>> > >
>> > > Should X3D also have a convenient source for duration type SFTime
>> values ?
>> > >
>> > > Low impact proposals for sources of relative (small in size) time
>> > > SFTime events could be:
>> > >
>> > > - add a field to TimeTrigger SFTime [in,out] triggerValue, same as in
>> > > IntegerTrigger, which can hold a custom value.
>> > > - emit a cycleInterval event when a TimeSensor becomes active along
>> > > with isActive. This way a TimeSensor can become something like a
>> > > TimeTrigger
>> > >
>> > > Higher impact would be:
>> > >
>> > > - a new TimeSequencer node
>> > > - a new TimeInterpolator node (too strange probably but could be used
>> > > for strange time compression or dilation effects)
>> > > - a new type converter node which can convert SFFloat to SFTime,
>> > > should be easy to implement but could have unforeseeable impact.
>> > >
>> > > For the time being I think this means that I will add a type converter
>> > > script to my earlier test example, both for x3dom type scripts and x3d
>> > > type scripts.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers, Andreas
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 6:42 PM Holger Seelig wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > I recalculate the last cycleTime new (yes really outpuOnly
>> cycleTime):
>> > > >
>> > > > cycleTime = currentTime - fraction * cycleInterval
>> > > >
>> > > > From this time point you can calculate fraction as well:
>> > > >
>> > > > fraction = (currentTime - cycleTime) % 1.0
>> > > >
>> > > > Best regards,
>> > > > Holger
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Holger Seelig
>> > > > Leipzig, Germany
>> > > >
>> > > > holger.seelig at yahoo.de
>> > > > https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/
>> > > >
>> > > > Am 15.08.2023 um 23:37 schrieb Andreas Plesch :
>> > > >
>> > > > I forgot the cycleTime is actually of type SFTime, not SFFloat. So
>> > > > ScalarInterpolator would not work, although x3dom does not enforce
>> the
>> > > > type.
>> > > >
>> > > > Back to the drawing board, using TimeTrigger now, or perhaps
>> > > > elapsedTime from a TimeSensor to feed into cycleInterval.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks, Holger, for the test scene. Great to see. Will try to come
>> up
>> > > > with a simple scene without a Script node. How do you maintain the
>> > > > fraction after changing cycleInterval ?
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > > -Andreas
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 3:41 PM Andreas Plesch wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Developing a test scene uncovered that the requirement to continue
>> > > > smoothly on the same fraction after a cycleInterval change appears
>> to
>> > > > require a change to the startTime field value. An unintended
>> > > > consequence, perhaps ?
>> > > >
>> > > > Details:
>> > > >
>> > > > Here is a simple test scene for dynamic changes to cycleTime based
>> on
>> > > > a vrml2 source book scene for OrientationInterpolator:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/22a7b7f13bd597b55f136cee96a3b30747e14931/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>> > > >
>> > > > For X3D3.3 the scene is expected to show a rotating column at
>> constant
>> > > > speed. For X3D4.0 the scene is expected to show a rotating column
>> > > > which switches speed every 5 seconds without stuttering or resets.
>> > > >
>> > > > Above includes a first, rough x3dom implementation (in the Scene,
>> > > > javascript allows redefining almost anything) which at least shows
>> the
>> > > > changes in animation speed but is not successful at maintaining the
>> > > > correct fraction to smoothly continue after a change.
>> > > >
>> > > > Let's see. The fraction is elapsedTime/cycleInterval. This means
>> that
>> > > > either elapsedTime will need to change with a change to
>> cycleInterval
>> > > > or that startTime will need to change. Since elapsedTime is derived
>> > > > from the current time and startTime this only leaves startTime.
>> > > >
>> > > > new_fraction = old_fraction
>> > > > new_fraction = elapsedTime/new_cycleInterval
>> > > > elapsedTime - new_fraction * new_cycleInterval
>> > > > time - startTime = new_fraction * new_cycleInterval
>> > > > startTime = time - new_fraction * new_cycleInterval
>> > > >
>> > > > I think it is safe to change startTime but it will also change
>> > > > elapsedTime for the remainder of the cycle. Not sure what to do
>> about
>> > > > that. Also there may be scenes which somehow rely on startTime not
>> > > > being changed. But the algorithm for calculating fraction in the
>> spec
>> > > > really requires startTime to change when cycleInterval changes if
>> the
>> > > > goal is to maintain the fraction. Is this a matter for the spec. to
>> > > > address to remain internally consistent ?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/bb3ee65b6748644f640cd5b73f30ed6e/raw/181894e010f35d242f9f24cf39478e941bccf234/dynamicCycleInterval.x3d
>> > > >
>> > > > does adjust the startTime in that way and it does work to continue
>> > > > smoothly with the same fraction after the speed change. Not sure if
>> > > > there are implications for pausing and resuming. Probably worth
>> adding
>> > > > to the test scene, as well as enabling and disabling.
>> > > >
>> > > > I guess the alternative is to keep an internal effective startTime
>> for
>> > > > fraction calculation which may be a bit messy.
>> > > >
>> > > > I also tried briefly what happens when cycleTime changes every
>> frame,
>> > > > eg. at the same pace as Timesensor fractions are generated which
>> also
>> > > > seemed to work after the startTime adjustment.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Andreas
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:18 PM Andreas Plesch wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > It appears that a question on x3d-public back in 2016 was the
>> trigger
>> > > > for the change:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2016-November/thread.html#start
>> > > >
>> > > > It involves the x3d-svg-html "rosetta stone" page but that is not
>> > > > really suitable as a focused test scene.
>> > > >
>> > > > Since this is a new feature there are probably no existing
>> examples. I
>> > > > may try to generate a pure X3D one showing a bouncing sphere:
>> > > >
>> > > > A sketch:
>> > > >
>> > > > "SENSOR" TouchSensor
>> > > > "POSITION" Transform
>> > > > "BALL" Shape
>> > > > ..
>> > > > "CLOCK" TimeSensor
>> > > > "MOVER" CoordinateInterpolator
>> > > > ROUTE CLOCK.fraction_changed to MOVER.set_fraction
>> > > > ROUTE MOVER.value_changed to POSITION.position
>> > > > #Begin of cycleInterval switching without a script
>> > > > #Use ScalarInterpolator to emit SFFloat (there is no
>> ScalarSequencer)
>> > > > "INTERVAL5" ScalarInterpolator keyValue="5.0"
>> > > > "INTERVAL1" ScalarInterpolator keyValue="1.0"
>> > > > ROUTE INTERVAL5.value_changed to CLOCK.set_cycleInterval
>> > > > ROUTE INTERVAL1.value_changed to CLOCK.set_cycleInterval
>> > > > "Use Timers to trigger
>> > > > "TIMER5" TimeSensor loop=true enabled=false
>> > > > "TIMER1" TimeSensor loop=true enabled=false
>> > > > ROUTE TIMER5.fraction_changed to INTERVAL5.set_fraction
>> > > > ROUTE TIMER1.fraction_changed to INTERVAL1.set_fraction
>> > > > #Use BooleanToggle and BooleanFilter to control activity
>> > > > "NEGATER" BooleanFilter
>> > > > "TOGGLER" BooleanToggle
>> > > > ROUTE SENSOR.isActive to TOGGLER.set_boolean
>> > > > ROUTE TOGGLER.toggle_changed to NEGATER.set_boolean
>> > > > ROUTE TOGGLER.toggle_changed TIMER5.set_enabled #on/off TIMER5
>> > > > ROUTE NEGATER.inputeNegate TIMER1.set_enabled #off/on TIMER1
>> > > >
>> > > > Is there an easier way to send a SFFloat to cycleInterval without a
>> > > > script node ?
>> > > >
>> > > > Thinking about it may be better to avoid all the event utilities in
>> an
>> > > > example and just switch continuously between speeds:
>> > > > ...
>> > > > #Begin of cycleInterval switching without a script
>> > > > "INTERVAL1OR5" ScalarInterpolator key='0 0.5 0.5 1' keyValue='1 1 5
>> 5'
>> > > > ROUTE INTERVAL1OR5.value_changed to CLOCK.set_cycleInterval
>> > > > "SPEEDCLOCK" TimeSensor cycleInterval=5 # =3 for more challenging
>> test
>> > > > ROUTE SPEEDCLOCK.fraction_changed to INTERVAL1OR5.set_fraction
>> > > >
>> > > > This brings up if it will be necessary in the spec. to define
>> > > > behaviour for the case when cycleInterval receives a new value which
>> > > > is the same as the existing value ? Probably not since the proposed
>> > > > language only covers actual changes implying that nothing should
>> > > > happen if there is no actual change.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Andreas
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 10:46 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks for pointing out the error with CD1 urls in X3D Tooltips,
>> which eluded prior search/replace.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Now fixed. Correct current url prefix follows, sourceforge commit
>> and web3d.org deploy will happen later today.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > The older behavior can be considered defunct and rectified by
>> specification. Devising an example that explicitly shows such correct
>> behavior is a good idea. All candidates welcome from any author.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks for pursuing this important interoperability
>> consideration… we want duck models to consistently walk, talk, and
>> look like a duck.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Not sure what is going on with the following url, will investigate
>> further. Probably an early (and now unintended) redirect.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > all the best, Don
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > >
>> > > > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>> > > >
>> > > > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>> > > >
>> > > > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: x3d-public On Behalf Of Andreas Plesch
>> > > > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 6:56 PM
>> > > > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list
>> > > > Subject: [x3d-public] change to cycleTime perhaps no longer ignored
>> , example ?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/time.html#TimeSensor
>> > > >
>> > > > (as linked from tooltips page)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > has the change that resetting the value of cycleTime of an active
>> TimeSensor in v.4-CD1 does what is probably expected rather than being
>> completely ignored which was the old behaviour.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Is there an example scene somewhere which demonstrates that change,
>> for testing purposes ?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > A bouncing sphere which changes its frequency over time, perhaps ?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > This proposal may have been taken out since
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/time.html#TimeSensor
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > does not have the change ? In that case, apologies for the
>> confusion.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -Andreas
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > >
>> > > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > >
>> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > >
>> > > > x3d-public mailing list
>> > > >
>> > > > x3d-public at web3d.org
>> > > >
>> > > > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > x3d-public mailing list
>> > > > x3d-public at web3d.org
>> > > > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Andreas Plesch
>> > Waltham, MA 02453
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andreas Plesch
>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
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