[x3d-public] X3D Working Group meeting 8 DEC 2023: proposed charter improvements

Wed Dec 13 13:33:28 PST 2023

Here’s a simple JavaScript object to check against jslint and online JSON
checking services :

{ X3D: { "encoding": "UTF-8", "@profile": "Immersive", "@version": "4.0",
"@xsd:noNamespaceSchemaLocation": "
http://www.web3d.org/specifications/x3d-4.0.xsd", "JSON schema": "
http://www.web3d.org/specifications/x3d-4.0-JSONSchema.json" “Scene”: {} } }

Note that X3D is unquoted; in JSON, it would be double quoted, ‘“X3D”.’

While I believe that jslint lets a whole fleet of semis through, JSON is
much more restrictive.

Perhaps your reliance on jslint is causing your reluctance to pursue JSON
without a schema standard?

Yes, I realize that embedded JavaScript in JSON still needs to be
checked—that’s not the job of a JSON schema validator.  One can employ JSON
validators, JSON parsers, and jslint, not just one.  jslint and schema
isn’t going to look at the binding code within JSON.

John

On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 3:04 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> I gotta chuckle out of this, because you use a JavaScript linting tool,
> Douglas Crockford’s jslint, for checking JSON encoded files, which is
> likely going to pass a lot of invalid JavaScript syntax as well (See
> sourceforge.net x3d project).  But I don’t have personal experience with
> it, so I can’t really say one way or another.  What I can do is present
> JavaScript examples that will likely pass jslint, but fail JSON checks.  A
> simple test is trying unquoted property names (x3d node and statement
> names, unquoted x3d field names would probably be illegal JavaScript).  A
> example simple test would be using X3D (no quotes) instead of “X3D” at the
> top of the JSON file.
>
> Why not use the regular javax.json packages?
>
> Like this:
>
>
> public JsonObject readJsonFile(File jsonFile) throws FileNotFoundException
> {
>
> InputStream is = new       FileInputStream(jsonFile);
>
>  JsonReader reader = Json.createReader(is);
>
>  JsonObject jsobj = reader.readObject();
>
>   return jsobj;
>
>  }
>
> I probably need to test this code to see if it throws exceptions.  Perhaps
> using jslint does a better job of catching JSON problems.
>
> Here’s the java ee 7 documentation of javax.json packages.  I believe it’s
> now available under Jakarta EE.
>
> https://docs.oracle.com/javaee/7/api/javax/json/package-summary.html
>
> Here’s Jakarta docs:
>
>
> https://jakarta.ee/specifications/platform/8/apidocs/javax/json/package-summary.html
>
> Even Script nodes have to follow JSON encoding rules in JSON.  Perhaps
> that’s where the confusion is.  I don’t know of anything restricting Script
> nodes to the JavaScript programming language (they could be any binding).
>
> But yeah, perhaps not a high priority, and some rework of the build.xml
> ant file would probably be required.
>
> John
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 1:50 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>> JSON and JavaScript/EcmaScript are not equivalent, so no equating was
>> implied.
>>
>>
>>
>> JSON data structures are a subset of the EcmaScript programming language.
>>
>>
>>
>>    - Wikipedia: JSON (JavaScript Object Notation)
>>    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON
>>
>>
>>
>>    - “JSON became a strict subset of ECMAScript as of the language's
>>    2019 revision.”
>>    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON#Character_encoding
>>
>>
>>
>> Have fun with X3D JSON!  8)
>>
>>
>>
>>    - X3D to JSON Stylesheet Converter
>>    - https://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/X3dToJson.html
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 13, 2023 10:27 AM
>> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>> *Cc:* Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <
>> x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D Working Group meeting 8 DEC 2023:
>> proposed charter improvements
>>
>>
>>
>> Don, it’s okay to equate X3D definitions between standards.  It’s not
>> okay to equate a binding with an encoding.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did get on the JSON schema Slack, but I haven’t gotten the courage to
>> ask about standardization. It seems like they are busy working on a lot of
>> things since 2020, and not necessarily the core standard.   There’s a
>> #specification channel, which is mildly active.  I guess we haven’t seen a
>> draft standard for 3 years now.
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone wants to help promote JSON for a Java binding, adding hooks to
>> enable using JSON with Java, please check out
>>
>> https://github.com/coderextreme/x3dschema
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcoderextreme%2Fx3dschema&data=05%7C02%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cca36f1bff44140ea04f308dbfc0929bd%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638380888529685460%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JeYXJUq709OOEGE1m3MNQct%2FzRAZ%2BdlBT%2BDWnPp3dZI%3D&reserved=0>
>> (I’m moving away from schema, this used to be the Java JSON schema
>> validator).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 11:37 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Good points John.  When reviewing I will confer with Dick Puk to ensure
>> that all of our terms of reference align correctly with ISO terminology.
>> Our X3D Standards Relationships diagram helps with that careful
>> cross-checking.
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your review and this suggestion.
>>
>>
>>
>> When we get to that point of specification drafting, am expecting that
>> our draft documents will
>>
>>    - use ECMA standards for ECMAScript and JSON
>>    - ensure that X3D definitions for each of these are 100%
>>    interoperable (and likely identical).
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 11, 2023 9:05 AM
>> *To:* Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <
>> x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Cc:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>;
>> consortium at web3d.org; x3d at web3d.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D Working Group meeting 8 DEC 2023:
>> proposed charter improvements
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks good Don.   Note in section (b) that JSON is independent of
>> JavaScript in many cases, so it’s ok to list them separately.  We can
>> accomplish a JavaScript SAI without JSON, and we can accomplish a JSON
>> encoding without JavaScript.  It may also be preferable to use ECMAScript
>> instead of JavaScript.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 10:43 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) via
>> x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org> wrote:
>>
>> Attendees Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.
>>
>>
>>
>> The X3D Working Group meets each Friday 09-1000 pacific (12-1300 eastern).
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>    https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
>>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fus02web.zoom.us%2Fj%2F81634670698%3Fpwd%3Da1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09&data=05%7C02%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cca36f1bff44140ea04f308dbfc0929bd%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638380888529685460%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HtgJwhBp%2F4smQzYYgcU08jFc8Jvlx6lhBAAczP3cbkQ%3D&reserved=0>
>>    - https://zoom.us/j/148206572
>>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2Fj%2F148206572&data=05%7C02%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cca36f1bff44140ea04f308dbfc0929bd%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638380888529685460%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aWmaR%2F46P7QJ45eEiJlgKHW06GUqJBmyCY2Lf1bawL4%3D&reserved=0>
>>    Password 483805
>>    - https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>>
>>
>>
>> We again looked at updating the X3D Working Group Charter for 2024.
>> Current charter is online at
>>
>>
>>
>>    - https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d
>>
>>
>>
>> First section with suggested edits follows.  None of the current charter
>> words are incorrect, am looking to simplify and make clearer:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Overview:
>>
>>
>>
>> *The Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics Working Group forms the core of the
>> provides the core technical foundation for all working groups within the
>> Web3D Consortium. It is responsible for the development of specification of
>> core technologies for the X3D suite of Specifications, and the integration
>> of the maximum interoperability with related specifications for non-core
>> technologies, and coordinating the technical aspects of all Web3D working
>> group efforts broad deployment of interactive X3D models. The **X3D
>> Graphics Standards: Specification Relationships
>> <https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png>**
>> graphic nicely diagram illustrates these capabilities the interaction and
>> relationships between the various X3D specifications.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Interest in metaverse and augmented reality, improvements in
>> high-quality audio and visual fidelity on any computer platform, and new
>> support for multiple file encodings and programming languages including
>> JSON and streaming binary are driving the broad deployment of interactive
>> X3D4 models across the Web into new domains of real-time 3D human
>> interaction development of the next revision of the standard. The Working
>> Group is looking for people to help with these and other technical fields
>> in creating the X3D V4.0 standard.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *The wide-spread adoption of WebGL in all browsers is driving X3D into
>> the future. The next generation of X3D (V4.0) will be embedded in the
>> browser and support full interaction with the web page. It will include all
>> of the features of X3D that are currently available plus new rendering,
>> interaction, and device support all running in your browser, whether it is
>> on your desktop or your phone. In addition to X3D continuing to work in
>> non-browser environments.*
>>
>>
>>
>> Condensed:
>>
>>
>>
>> *The Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics Working Group provides the core
>> technical foundation for all working groups within the Web3D Consortium. It
>> is responsible for development of the X3D suite of specifications, maximum
>> interoperability with related technologies, and coordinating the broad
>> deployment of interactive X3D models. The X3D Graphics Standards:
>> Specification Relationships
>> <https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png>
>> diagram illustrates these capabilities.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Interest in metaverse and augmented reality, improvements in
>> high-quality audio and visual fidelity on any computer platform, and new
>> support for multiple file encodings and programming languages including
>> JSON and streaming binary are driving the broad deployment of interactive
>> X3D4 models across the Web into new domains of real-time 3D human
>> interaction.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [The next proposed sections are updates from last week’s meeting and
>> email discussion.]
>>
>>
>>
>> X3D Working Group priorities for 2024 follow.
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. *Specifications Synchronization*.  Update, review, implement and
>>    advance all corresponding X3D specifications for file encodings and
>>    language encodings, continuing rigorous attention to detail through Web3D
>>    Consortium, W3C, US INCITS H3, and ISO/IEC standards development
>>    organizations (SDOs).
>>    2. *Implementations*.  Provide a technical forum that encourages the
>>    greatest possible development for functionally complete X3D4 applications,
>>    authoring tools, and model converters such as Blender and MeshLab.  Pay
>>    special attention to implementations using Humanoid Animation (HAnim), glTF
>>    model import, Web Audio API and MIDI 2.0 capabilities for integrated
>>    spatial auralization, projective texture mapping, HTML5 integration, XML,
>>    JSON/JavaScript, Java, Python, C/C++/C#, compressed binary formats, and
>>    additional new X3D 4.0 features.
>>    3. *Publications*.  Demonstrate how X3D can make 3D Graphics part of
>>    the modern Web by integrating with key infrastructure such as Web3D
>>    Conference series, Wikipedia, and other major publication resources.
>>    4. *Innovation Foundation*.  Show how Extensibility mechanisms for
>>    X3D can implement new capabilities in a standards-compatible way.  Much is
>>    possible, model correctness is validatable, and few barriers to exploration
>>    exist.
>>    5. *Metaverse*.  Support 3D Web Interoperability and Metaverse
>>    Standards Register groups in the Metaverse Standards Forum (MSF),
>>    implementing shared use cases to provide helpful feedback on successes and
>>    next-step goals.
>>
>>
>>
>> These renewed priorities fit well as next steps in a quarter century of
>> stable evolution using Virtual Reality Modeling Language (VRML) and X3D.
>>
>>
>>
>>    - *Past as Prologue*.  The X3D Working Group carefully follows Web3D
>>    policies and procedures, integrating much public/private comment that is
>>    well documented in X3D email archives and Mantis issue tracker.  Both
>>    backwards compatibility and forwards extensibility have been carefully
>>    preserved throughout, enabling effective reuse of every VRML97 and X3D
>>    model for the past quarter century. Seventh in a specification series
>>    starting with VRML97, successful completion of the X3D 4.0 Architecture
>>    once again proves that this collaborative process is effective.
>>
>>
>>
>>    - *Present, 2024*.  There is much capability in X3D 4.0 already that
>>    deserves broader implementation and exposure in high-capability models.
>>    Consequently we are deliberately *not* pursuing X3D 4.1 specification
>>    improvements with ISO/IEC in 2024.  Meanwhile we do encourage
>>    *Innovation* by emphasizing X3D extensibility mechanisms:  Inline,
>>    Script, Prototype, software libraries supporting source-code
>>    implementations that generate X3D, etc. etc.  New candidate nodes (such as *Image
>>    Atlas*) that rise to the level of broad usefulness can be formally
>>    considered as contributions to Web3D Recommended Practice.
>>
>>
>>
>>    - *Future, 2025+*.  Once all of the corresponding X3D specifications
>>    have been updated to match X3D 4.0 architecture, development of a future
>>    X3D 4.1 specification revision will be possible.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What’s missing?  What’s unclear and might be better expressed?  What else
>> do *you* need?
>>
>>
>>
>> All improvements are welcome, a big year awaits us…
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for considering the possibilities.  Have fun with X3D!  8)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>>
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