[x3d-public] New description fields and Displacer

Sun Feb 12 14:52:44 PST 2023

So the animation of the Displacer (all vertices) is done primarily via
scalar weight events?

John

On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 12:44 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> First, please get Displacer running. I can’t or haven’t been able to test
> some others. All I really have is old BS Contact demo
>
> Thank You for fine Hanim, except Displacer:)
>
>
>
> Please try to get one working with one segment or site geometry.
>
> The coordIndex is the order of points as appears in the user code.
>
> The Displacer is operating in coordinate space of target geometry of
> parent Transform.
>
>
>
> Humanoid
>
> .Skeleton
>
> ..Joint
>
> ...Segment
>
> ....Geometry
>
> ....Displacer
>
> ....Site
>
> .....Geometry
>
> .....Displacer
>
> ...Joint …
>
> .Skin
>
> ..Geometry
>
> ..Displacer
>
>   (coded as direct child of controlling Joint)
>
>
>
> As a simple pattern, since Displacer is not a container and does not carry
> a reference to the target geometry.
>
> From that, please insert the Displacer immediately following the target
> geometry.
>
>
>
> If the Displacer is acting upon skin vertices, there is indication that
> the Displacer should be direct child of Joint with control of all or subset
> of vertices also controlled by the Joint. That would make the Displacer as
> allowed child of Joint, an honor otherwise shared only by Segment and
> Joint.
>
>
>
> Somewhere in the past it was set that the Displacer is not a container and
> does not need a coded reference
>
> to the target geometry. So, each Displacer must be associated with
> specific vertices
>
> of a particular geometry by its location in the user code.
>
>
>
> Thus, it seems reasonable to define that for Segment or Site geometry,
>
> the Displacer should be child in the same coordinate space as the
> geometry.
>
> Sibling of Segment geometry or Transform holding Segment geometry.
>
> Sibling of Site geometry or Transform holding Site geometry.
>
> Likewise, it seems natural that for skeleton-driven skin animation the
>
> Displacer is used to enhance control of points associated with
>
> a certain Joint, so we want to closely associate a Displacer with a
> Joint.
>
>
>
> Overall, the Displacer is expected to actuate after skeleton-driven
> animation
>
> for the frame is complete.
>
>
>
> HAnimDisplacer : X3DGeometricPropertyNode {
>
>   MFInt32  [in,out] coordIndex    []   [0,∞) or -1
>
>   MFVec3f  [in,out] displacements []
>
>   SFNode   [in,out] metadata      NULL [X3DMetadataObject]
>
>   SFString [in,out] name          ""
>
>   SFFloat  [in,out] weight        0.0  [0,∞)
>
> }
>
>
>
> So, you supply index of the vertex you wish to displace
>
> and the maximum displacement along a 3D vector you wish to move it.
>
> Then when you wish to move it, you send the Displacer a weight event,
> float 0 to 1.
>
> If the new weight is 0 then nothing is added.
>
> If the weight is 1, then the vertex is moved the full displacement along
> the 3D vector.
>
>
>
> Of course this is eversoslightlycomplicated by the fact that displacements
> are
>
> 3D vectors relative to the specified vertex in default pose coordinate
> space
>
> of the target geometry.
>
>
>
> As an example, here is the JoeKick example simplified to one vertex,
>
> the skull apex point.
>
>
>
> <HAnimDisplacer
>
> DEF='Joe_skull_tip_raiser_action'
>
> name='skull_tip_raiser_action'
>
> coordIndex='0'
>
> displacements='0 0.15 0' />
>
>
>
> This displacements value says create a 3D vector
>
> from 0 0 0 at the current vertex location to 0 0.15 0.
>
> Move that vertex along that Y-axis vector 0 to 100 percent,
>
> depending upon the 0 to 1 floating point weight event
>
> I will send. The reference coordinate system of the
>
> vertex in the default position is retained even if the
>
> vertex has been moved by other actions.
>
>
>
> Of course this is eversoslightly complicated by
>
> the fact that the each displacement is actually a 3D vector.
>
> The 0 0 0 base and 0 0 1 0 orientation is relative to the
>
> default pose and is retained for displacer animation.
>
>
>
> Wait, do I need to consider vertex coordinate space and orientation of a
> vertex?
>
> Well, Yes, but just like Joint nodes, We will best be served when we
> understand the default, before animation pose and the default orientation
> of each item we wish to animate. So, for Joint nodes of the skeleton we
> orient the Joint to transform default, meaning if you are sitting on the
> Joint, then +Y is Up and left is +x, and you are facing +z. Regardless of
> how the parent joint is animated, the child joint retains its reference
> orientation.
>
> So, yes, you navigate 3D space the same for Joint(s) and vertices
> controlled by Displacer.
>
>
>
> Now, when I send 'Joe_skull_tip_raiser_action' the weight event,
>
> the vertex 0 of the geometry will be moved along the 3D vector
>
> defined by the displacements value.
>
> Notice that if, for instance the vertex has been moved due to skeleton
> animation,
>
> the displacement will be as expected because the vertex remembers its
> default orientation.
>
>
>
> About placement of the ROUTE statement. Expected something got something
> else.
>
> I thought we agreed that the grammar shows ROUTE can be free and as a
> field in a node.
>
> So, I still get those errors where you tell me my node markup is wrong.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Again,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, February 9, 2023 2:48 PM
> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Cc: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>; Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>; GPU
> Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>; X3D Graphics public mailing list
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: New description fields
>
>
>
> 1.
>
>
>
> > Just reuse the last set on the list to fill out the list.
>
> > What is so bad about that?
>
> > Do you fail if not enough colors?
>
>
>
> Reusing the last value of a per-vertex attribute (like texture
>
> coordinate) would be a bit useless, at least in most cases.
>
>
>
> Yes, we also throw a warning when there are not enough colors.
>
>
>
> This is also following X3D specification, see e.g. IndexedFaceSet:
>
>
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD/Part01/components/geometry3D.html#IndexedFaceSet
>
>
>
> """
>
> If the greatest index in the coordIndex field is N, the Coordinate
>
> node shall contain N+1 coordinates (indexed as 0 to N).
>
> ...
>
> If the greatest index in the colorIndex field is N, then there shall
>
> be N+1 colours in the X3DColorNode node.
>
> ...
>
> If the greatest index in the texCoordIndex field is N, then there
>
> shall be N+1 texture coordinates in the X3DTextureCoordinateNode.
>
> ...
>
> If the texCoordIndex field is empty, then the coordIndex array is used
>
> to choose texture coordinates from the X3DTextureCoordinateNode node.
>
> If the greatest index in the coordIndex field is N, then there shall
>
> be N+1 texture coordinates in the X3DTextureCoordinateNode node.
>
> """
>
>
>
> All these sentences say a similar thing: if you provide a per-vertex
>
> data, we expect you to provide as much data as you want to index.
>
> Adding a processing on browser side to "reuse the last data" would be
>
> extra work, not necessary in many cases, and it is actually better in
>
> many cases to throw an error in this case. It is better to consider
>
> this "not valid file".
>
>
>
> Note that view3dscene still displays the mesh, this is just a warning.
>
>
>
> It's not an X3D invention either. glTF, Collada follow this too.
>
>
>
> If you want to just reuse the last coordinate, then I guess duplicate
>
> it in TextureCoordinate. But is this really what you want? You want to
>
> have 3 vertexes with texture coordinates like this:
>
>
>
> - 0 0
>
> - 0.5 0.5
>
> - 0.5 0
>
>
>
> ... and then 300+ vertexes with equal texture coordinate 0 0.5 ? This
>
> seems a bit weird texture mapping. If most of vertexes have the same
>
> texture coordinate then most faces will just display a single color
>
> from the texture. This would be valid but rather non-standard use of
>
> textures.
>
>
>
> 2. HAnimDisplacer is indeed simply not implemented in
>
> view3dscene/Castle Game Engine for now.
>
>
>
> 3. As for routes, you mention """Also, the item about the route
>
> statements being in a place you don’t like did not get fixed in
>
> 4.3.0.""" -- sorry, I do not recall the issue. But I have too many
>
> TODO lists, maybe something slipped my mind. Please refresh my memory,
>
> point me to the thread or bugreport about it.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Michalis
>
>
>
> czw., 9 lut 2023 o 19:44 Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> napisał(a):
>
> >
>
> > Otherwise X3D browser doesn't know what do you mean --
>
> >
>
> > what texture coordinate is supposed to be associated with vertex with
>
> >
>
> > index 9.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yes it does, or it should. Just reuse the last set on the list to fill
> out the list.
>
> >
>
> > What is so bad about that?
>
> >
>
> >  Do you fail if not enough colors?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Anyway, the Displacer is not working in 4.3.0 with no errors on that.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKickIndex.html
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Also, the item about the route statements being in a place you don’t
> like did not get fixed in 4.3.0.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Can you or someone please help me with <TextureCoordinate point='0 0 0.5
> 0.5 0.5 0 0 0.5'/> since I an’t seem to get the right number for happiness
> even when it seems right and works elsewhere.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > X3D: Invalid number of items in a normal or texture coordinate array for
> shape
> "Joe_Humanoid:Joe_Kick:Joe_Shape:IndexedFaceSet(Joe_skin_IndexedFaceSet)":
> Invalid index: 141, but we have 139 items
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Even when the numbers match at the correct numver ofverts it fails.
>
> >
>
> > Is this finding something in the texture transform?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sure would like to see Displacer working.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks,
>
> >
>
> > Joe
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: Michalis Kamburelis
>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2023 7:30 AM
>
> > To: Joseph D Williams
>
> > Cc: John Carlson; Don Brutzman; GPU Group; X3D Graphics public mailing
> list
>
> > Subject: Re: New description fields
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yes :) I know we had a few communications about this already, so maybe
>
> >
>
> > you already fixed it in some version of the file and it is just not
>
> >
>
> > updated on that page.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I just report that
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.x3d
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > still has this error. Specifically, it contains geometry like this:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >           <IndexedFaceSet DEF='Joe_skin_IndexedFaceSet' coordIndex='0
>
> >
>
> > 9 5 -1 0 7 9 ...' creaseAngle='3.14'>
>
> >
>
> >             <Coordinate DEF='Joe_SkinCoord' point='0.0 1.77 ..../>
>
> >
>
> >             <TextureCoordinate point='0 0 0.5 0.5 0.5 0 0 0.5'/>
>
> >
>
> >           </IndexedFaceSet>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So you use coordinate index "9" (and larger, later, like 386) ... but
>
> >
>
> > your "TextureCoordinate.point" has only 4 items. So you can only use
>
> >
>
> > indexes 0..3. Otherwise X3D browser doesn't know what do you mean --
>
> >
>
> > what texture coordinate is supposed to be associated with vertex with
>
> >
>
> > index 9.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> >
>
> > Michalis
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > czw., 9 lut 2023 o 14:48 Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> napisał(a):
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > X3D: Invalid number of items in an attribute array for shape
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
> "Joe_Humanoid/Joe_Kick/Joe_Shape/IndexedFaceSet(Joe_skin_IndexedFaceSet)":
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Invalid index: 9, but we have 4 items in 2D texture coordinates
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > ... and the error is valid from what I can see. TextureCoordinate has
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > too few points.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Is this back to telling me I have to have all texcoords for all points?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Joe
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > From: Michalis Kamburelis
>
> >
>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2023 5:23 AM
>
> >
>
> > > To: John Carlson
>
> >
>
> > > Cc: Don Brutzman; GPU Group; Joe D Williams; X3D Graphics public
> mailing list
>
> >
>
> > > Subject: Re: New description fields
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > To other X3D browser implementors adding "description":
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > If you also have been implementing RenderedTexture node (not in X3D
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > spec, but common extension, at least in InstantReality, Xj3d, and
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > CGE/view3dscene), note that you should remove the
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "RenderedTexture.description" field. It can (and should) now inherit
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "X3DSingleTextureNode.description".
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Sometimes automatic tests catch real errors :) (This nuance was caught
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > by CGE automatic tests.)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Regards,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Michalis
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > czw., 9 lut 2023 o 14:04 Michalis Kamburelis
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > <michalis.kambi at gmail.com> napisał(a):
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I added to view3dscene/Castle Game Engine handling of "description"
> field on
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - X3DSingleTextureNode
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - HAnimDisplacer
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - HAnimHumanoid
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - HAnimJoint
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - HAnimSegment
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - HAnimSite
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I also added HAnimHumanoid.loa .
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > As usual, the fix will be available in snapshot view3dscene versions
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > on https://castle-engine.io/view3dscene.php (also part of larger CGE
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > download, https://castle-engine.io/download ). Please give Jenkins a
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > 6-8 hours to process it and run all automated tests.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Note that these "description" fields seem unrelated to
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.x3d
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > . That file only used "description" on Viewpoint, which we already
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > handled.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > After adding "HAnimHumanoid.loa", this file reports just this error
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > (many times) in view3dscene:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > X3D: Invalid number of items in an attribute array for shape
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
> "Joe_Humanoid/Joe_Kick/Joe_Shape/IndexedFaceSet(Joe_skin_IndexedFaceSet)":
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Invalid index: 9, but we have 4 items in 2D texture coordinates
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > ... and the error is valid from what I can see. TextureCoordinate has
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > too few points.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Regards,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Michalis
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > śr., 8 lut 2023 o 03:45 John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> napisał(a):
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > I'm trying to collect information into one message.  Michalis,
> please check view3dscene 4.3, I believe ImageTexture and HAnimDisplacer
> were missing description field in view3dscene 4.2 and 4.3. See links below
> for X3D4 tooltips specifics.  The issue with view3dscene stems from adding
> a description fields in X3D4 using X3D-Edit (for the most part).  There are
> also schema issues with the file in question (JohnJoint18.x3d).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > I’ll double check the tooltips while I am at it.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#ImageTexture.description
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > (Yellow)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimDisplacer.description
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > (Yellow)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > If there are examples of HAnimDisplacer in the community, consider
> donating them to our testing effort.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > The good news is we have one good HAnimDisplacer node from
> www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.x3d (in
> the file system on the x3d project our sourceforge).   Michalis, Joe, the
> issue is that view3dscene throws all kinds of issues with the file.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > I was able to add the HAnimDisplacer in JoeKick to my
> JohnJoint18.x3d and not increase the number of errors reported by
> view3dscene (HAnimDisplacer without description seems to be working).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Thanks!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > John
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 2:18 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >> No. I'm finished with that project, its somewhere in web3d. I
> think I referred to tooltips, which has v4 added fields in yellow.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >> -Doug
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >> On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 12:40 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>> Doug,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>> could you add nodes which have a new description field to your
> browser builder guide?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>> Thanks!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >>> John and Don
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
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