[x3d-public] web3d MMO > Sensor sharing via DIS

[John Carlson]

I've been unable to install X3D-Edit. (Firewall issue?  I tried to add a
rule for the Netbeans 18 application, but there were two .exe.  A firewall
picture about what's supposed to be in the firewall would be helpful.

I didn't see issues when testing the connection.

So the X3D validator is down, so I've been unable to validate pp3.x3d.

I'm attaching it in case someone has a recent version of NetBeans. I'm not
sure that I can back out to an older version of NetBeans.

Thanks!

Don't tear down your fortress until you have a new one built.

John

On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 2:07 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Note, pp3.x3d contains StringSensor and X_ITE has it, but AFAIK from
> looking at local repository, X3DOM does not (lowercase?).  The stand has it
> here:
>
> Extensible 3D (X3D), ISO/IEC 19775-1:202x, 21 Key device sensor component
> (web3d.org)
> <https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/keyDeviceSensor.html#StringSensor>
>
> Unknown if FreeWRL supports it.
>
> I think the code may be broken, it's been years since it worked, will
> validate.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 5:02 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On a WebGL app, i have mouse clicks/drags going to WebGL.  I believe
>> input text can be handled through gaining keyboard focus (onfocus event) in
>> a text field or text area.
>>
>> While i have written a text field-like thing, see: src/main/data/pp3.x3d
>> in https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD , i am unaware if it’s
>> currently working or not. As I recall, my extrusions were not working in
>> X3DOM (see qq3.x3d for extrusion test case.)
>>
>> TextArea in X3D seems like a lot of work, but I’ve done some work in my
>> jsondemons repo, with X3DOM, I recall.  The app is pretty inscrutable, but
>> I might be able to record a demo.
>>
>> In LIRCom, one could have channels and users in same menu.  Consider a
>> channel a subclass of user.  Or do what Discord does (it’s a web app
>> deployed as a native app, AFAIK).
>>
>> LIRCom is a mess, but check out Channel.java and Kanal.java (Danish for
>> Channel).  Once a channel sends you a message on join, it’s in your contact
>> menu (temporarily).  One can have lists of destinations in a message.
>>
>> It’s been years since i put significant effort into chat, I plan on
>> revamping the GUI with JavaFX.
>>
>> If I recall right, VRChat is already linked to Discord.
>>
>> I’m not really doing any work these days, pull requests welcome.
>>
>> John
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 3:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] web3d MMO > Sensor sharing via DIS
>> To: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> Destination and source are in the header part.  The most detailed specs I
>> have:
>>
>> https://freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/28_Distributed_interactive_simulation/1278.1-200X%20Draft%2016%20rev%2018.pdf
>>
>> 5.6.5.13 Comment PDU
>> - there's a header part that all Pdus have, and then variable datum
>> records
>> So it would just be the chat data going into the variable datum records
>> 6.2.19 Datum Specification record
>> And there's a separate numberOfVariableDatumRecords to say how many
>> records, and then within each record there's a small header that says how
>> many 64 bit chunks in the record. So there's lots of room for very long
>> chat lines.
>> Lets say your chat line is "Hey what do you think of my art work?" That's
>> 36 chars + \0 = 37 bytes x 8 bits = 286
>> 296/64 = 4.625, rounding up you would need 5 64 bit chunks, so your
>> variable record length would be 5.
>> Q. in a web3d browser, how to indicate your keyboard message is intended
>> as a chat message, and not navigation or other keyboard use?
>> Would the browser need a separate window / box not part of the scene, and
>> click the mouse in the box before typing?
>> Would chat messages be for everyone, or if for a specific other player,
>> how indicate which player? Would you click on their avatar in the scene, or
>> would the chat window/panel have something to click?
>> -Doug
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 12:33 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding of your explanation is there are some number of 64 bit
>>> chunks in a single CommentPdu.  I would have trouble fitting destination
>>> and perhaps source routing into 64 bits, and i don’t know how to deal with
>>> multiple interleaved Pdu messages yet.  Currently, there’s no validation of
>>> nickname in chat parlance in my apps.  Recording source, route and
>>> destination should be sufficient, in my opinion.
>>>
>>> I have fields like date-time so i can toss messages that have been in
>>> the network for too long and message order integer from a source to prevent
>>> duplicates.  Also source language for chat.  Some of these are probably
>>> handled by DIS.
>>>
>>> I’m thinking i could use a boolean or numeric for a continuation flag.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 12:58 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes CommentPdu contents arbitrary --can be anything you can pack into
>>>> the records. The entity 33 is my signal to the receiving app to parse it as
>>>> sensor events, and if you had another use for CommentPdu you could signal
>>>> it to be parsed differently in a similar way, or have a standard to put the
>>>> parsing information in the first record or some technique like that. Its
>>>> binary data, in 64 bit chunks, so if you wanted it to be interpreted as
>>>> character data like Chat text, you'd signal that by one of those variables
>>>> so the receiving app would know how to parse it. That means all the apps
>>>> participating in an exercise would need to know the signals and how to
>>>> parse.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 11:42 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oh, i thought your SensorEvents in a CommentPdu was outside the DIS
>>>>> standard.   That is, i thought the “body” of a CommentPdu was arbitrary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 11:30 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are nice videos John, artistic.
>>>>>> I think the DIS is bureaucratic with all its parameters, and if
>>>>>> there's a standard some day for what of those we use in web3d for what, it
>>>>>> won't take much work to change.
>>>>>> -Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the Avatar viaEspdu (EntityState), I made category 77, and
>>>>>> EntityID == applicationID
>>>>>> espdu->entityType.category = 77; //SPECIAL CATEGORY 77 FOR AVATARS
>>>>>> espdu->entityID.entity = fwl_get_DISapplication(); // application 1:1
>>>>>> avatar, entity = f(application)
>>>>>> espdu->entityID.application = fwl_get_DISapplication();
>>>>>> - but there wasn't much processing difference (yet) on the receiving
>>>>>> end for avatars - just regular EspduTransform
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For SensorEvents via CommentPdu I made Entity 33 to signal
>>>>>> SensorEvent comment (but currently don't check it when reading)
>>>>>> cpdu->mySimulationManagementFamilyPdu.originatingEntityID.entity =
>>>>>> 33; //can be a code for sensors
>>>>>> cpdu->mySimulationManagementFamilyPdu.originatingEntityID.application
>>>>>> = fwl_get_DISapplication();
>>>>>> cpdu->mySimulationManagementFamilyPdu.originatingEntityID.site =
>>>>>> fwl_get_DISsite();
>>>>>> Because neither Avatar nor SensorEvents has a DIS node just for them,
>>>>>> I rely on command-line settings for site and application. When running
>>>>>> multiple instances, I increment the application number.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 7:20 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here’s the LIRCom demos:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTS-0xyjagy-ZJ8vnR9SfeKfYJM6qMQEO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps we should consider standardizing subclasses of CommentPdu?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can think of one attribute extension off the top of my head,
>>>>>>> “domain,” like Solitaire/Cards, 3D-Edit or Chat.  Currently, these all ride
>>>>>>> on the same “bus.” DIS Federation is important, “channels” currently
>>>>>>> implemented as Entities????
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 8:00 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/coderextreme/lircom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wondering how to “port” or rewrite LIRCom in DIS+CommentPdu.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/coderextreme/lircom/blob/master/src/main/java/lircom/Message.java
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For what might be considered “core” messaging protocol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Demo apps:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I’ve been considering Fediverse/ActivityPub, but if there are
>>>>>>>> enough platforms running DIS and CommentPdu, that would make the platforms
>>>>>>>> good for implementations.  Are there Java DIS+CommentPdu implementations?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Buffering up comments is very interesting to me!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 7:46 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting, i had considered using CommentPdu in my own apps, but
>>>>>>>>> I’m a bit freaked out by DIS/VPN/multicast.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will view the video soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 5:12 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MMO - massively multiplayer online
>>>>>>>>>> DIS distributed interactive simulation - a web3d component 28
>>>>>>>>>> CONCEPT: web3d browsers load identical scenes, and share sensor
>>>>>>>>>> events, and each instance does its own routing diagram after sensor event
>>>>>>>>>> is shared.
>>>>>>>>>> https://freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/28_Distributed_interactive_simulation/elevator/MMO_Sensor_sharing.mp4
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - 2 instances of freewrl with DIS activated, showing same
>>>>>>>>>> elevator3.x3d scene
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/28_Distributed_interactive_simulation/elevator/
>>>>>>>>>> - in video we can see avatar of other instance as green cone
>>>>>>>>>> - when current scene clicks elevator up button, it relays that
>>>>>>>>>> sensor click event to other app instance, which triggers the elevator in
>>>>>>>>>> the other scene to go up at the same time
>>>>>>>>>> - the avatar in the other scene rides its elevator up, and sends
>>>>>>>>>> its new avatar pose to the current scene, so appears they are riding up
>>>>>>>>>> elevator together.
>>>>>>>>>> - the code sensor intercept point is general enough to capture
>>>>>>>>>> TouchSensor, GeoTouchSensor, LineSensor, PointSensor (not web3d spec),
>>>>>>>>>> PlaneSensor, MultiTouchSensor (not web3d spec), CylinderSensor,
>>>>>>>>>> SphereSensor, ProximitySensor, GeoProximitySensor, Anchor.
>>>>>>>>>> - it broadcasts sensor events to other app instances via DIS
>>>>>>>>>> CommentPdu, which has variable number of variable-length records. All
>>>>>>>>>> sensor hits on a frame are queued, and when processing dis send events, it
>>>>>>>>>> reads the queue and packs into a single CommentPdu and broadcastes.
>>>>>>>>>> - other app instances once per frame in dis_receive function
>>>>>>>>>> parse the pdu stream, and direct all CommentPdus to the
>>>>>>>>>> pdu2sensor function, which iterates over the CommentPdu variable records
>>>>>>>>>> and calls the appropriate sensor functions for each sensor event.
>>>>>>>>>> -Doug
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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