[x3d-public] Sound v4 > channel nodes > node design comparison v4 vs Doug proposed; ChannelMerger
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Mon Mar 6 04:00:49 PST 2023
Mind you v4 design only half-passes the SF routing threshold:
Selections/sources. Destinations are baked in scenegraph.
If the routing threshold was changed to MF, then proposed would have full
runtime control over sources and destinations.
One way to save proposed, is to promise utility nodes for SF to MF in v4.1.
-Doug
On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 3:11 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don;t have a good answer for changing individual elements of an MFInt32
> field.
> I guess that use case kills the proposed method.
> -Doug
> more.. there was another browser I used about 15 years ago, and it had
> some utility nodes where you route an MF field to the input, and it would
> have 10 SF outputs, and another one going the other way - 10 SF inputs, and
> routed and MF.
> Seemed limited use with just 10. But would work for a 6 channel case.
> Something more general like the IntegerSequencer, which takes 2 routings,
> one for the index (next, previous, or index) and one for the value, but for
> this MFInt32 case the input value would be SInt32. Then routing from the
> MFInt32 field in Merger to the utility function, and routing back when
> changed.
> But that would take some prose to explain the use case even if there was a
> utility node like that.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 2:13 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don,
>> Thanks for feedback.
>> Tuples needed. And web3d doesn't have tuple fields.
>> If web3d had MFInt32_3tuple field type that would be great in this
>> use-case.
>> In this case the tuple needed is (destinationChannel, sourceChannel,
>> audioStream)
>> Next best I can think of 3 MFInt32 fields --and some prose to explain
>> they should have the same number of entries.
>> It's not in w3c because its another mechanism to convert procedural code
>> to declarative.
>> -Doug
>> more..
>> I showed the v4 design works under challenging scenarios/use-cases, but
>> is awkward in some scenarios --requiring prose to explain. I couldn't
>> understand how to use the nodes as the prose was written. Maybe more
>> detailed prose would help.
>> "The Merger.children field represents a list of destinationChannels ..."
>> That's when I tried the 2-tuple. The prose for it would look like
>> "The Merger.children field represents a list of sourceChannels"
>> The 2-tuple didn't work with scenarios d) and e).
>> The 3-tuple prose would look like this:
>> "The Merger.children field represents a list of audio streams"
>> Decoupling the children field from both destinationChannel and
>> sourceChannel had benefits:
>> - no need to DEF/USE the same Splitter (or non-splitter) audio stream to
>> fill channel slots, if you have one splitter and/or audio stream, you can
>> repeat the indexStream index
>> - can do all the other permutations of merging and swapping channels with
>> indexSource and indexDestination
>>
>> PROSE COMPARISON TEST?
>> Perhaps a good test of design is which is easier to explain for all use
>> cases
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 12:57 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for continued scrutiny and experimentation efforts Doug.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Primary point from last Friday is that we are trying to align with Web
>>> Audio API parameters closely and correctly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Design point: MFInt32/MFFloat arrays with distinct elements in the
>>> array are quite difficult for authors to manipulate without scripting, and
>>> even then tend to be quite error prone. If actually needed, it is much
>>> preferred to define each parameter as an independent field. Looking over
>>> what you’ve shared here, for example:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - SFInt32 [in out] indexStream 0
>>> - SFInt32 [in out] indexSource 0
>>> - SFInt32 [in out] indexDestination 0
>>> - SFInt32 [in out] channelCount 0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Reference
>>>
>>> -
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/sound.html#ChannelMerger
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However am not seeing a match between what you’re suggesting here and
>>> what W3C Audio API says, please advise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#channelmergernode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *1.14. The **ChannelMergerNode
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#channelmergernode>** Interface*
>>>
>>> The ChannelMergerNode
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#channelmergernode> is for use in more
>>> advanced applications and would often be used in conjunction with
>>> ChannelSplitterNode
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#channelsplitternode>.
>>>
>>> *Property *
>>>
>>> *Value *
>>>
>>> *Notes *
>>>
>>> numberOfInputs
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-audionode-numberofinputs>
>>>
>>> see notes
>>>
>>> Defaults to 6, but is determined by ChannelMergerOptions
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dictdef-channelmergeroptions>,
>>> numberOfInputs
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-channelmergeroptions-numberofinputs>
>>> or the value specified by createChannelMerger
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-baseaudiocontext-createchannelmerger>.
>>>
>>>
>>> numberOfOutputs
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-audionode-numberofoutputs>
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>> channelCount
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-audionode-channelcount>
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>> Has channelCount constraints
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#audionode-channelcount-constraints>
>>>
>>> channelCountMode
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-audionode-channelcountmode>
>>>
>>> "explicit
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-channelcountmode-explicit>"
>>>
>>> Has channelCountMode constraints
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#audionode-channelcountmode-constraints>
>>>
>>> channelInterpretation
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-audionode-channelinterpretation>
>>>
>>> "speakers
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#dom-channelinterpretation-speakers>"
>>>
>>> tail-time <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#tail-time>
>>>
>>> No
>>>
>>> This interface represents an AudioNode
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#audionode> for combining channels from
>>> multiple audio streams into a single audio stream. It has a variable number
>>> of inputs (defaulting to 6), but not all of them need be connected. There
>>> is a single output whose audio stream has a number of channels equal to the
>>> number of inputs when any of the inputs is actively processing
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#actively-processing>. If none of the
>>> inputs are actively processing
>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#actively-processing>, then output is a
>>> single channel of silence. […]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> v/r Don
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> *On Behalf Of *GPU
>>> Group
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2023 5:51 AM
>>> *To:* X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] Sound v4 > channel nodes > node design
>>> comparison v4 vs Doug proposed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> correction to b)
>>>
>>> proposed
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6'
>>>
>>> indexStream='0,1'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 6:44 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's an even better proposed design using a 3-tuple, and showing more
>>> tested scenarios
>>>
>>> CHANNEL NODE DESIGN COMPARISON
>>>
>>> v4: channel nodes as written in v4 Spec Draft Sound Component
>>>
>>> - merger.children is a sequential list of output/destination channels
>>>
>>> proposed: add 3 fields to ChannelMerger
>>>
>>> - MFInt32 indexStream, indexSource, indexDestination
>>>
>>> - and eliminate ChannelSelector node.
>>>
>>> - Merger.children is a list of audio streams.
>>>
>>> I have both v4 and proposed implemented in freewrl: if indexStream,
>>> Source or Destination is empty, thunks to v4
>>>
>>> I tested both methods on 5 scenarios and they both work as follows:
>>>
>>> a) swapping 2 channels
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6' >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='1'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> proposed
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6'
>>>
>>> indexStream='0,0'
>>>
>>> indexSource='0,1'
>>>
>>> indexDestination='1,0'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> b) merging 2 channels into 1
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6' >
>>>
>>> <Gain>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='1'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> </Gain>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> proposed
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6'
>>>
>>> indexStream='0,0'
>>>
>>> indexSource='0,1'
>>>
>>> indexDestination='0,0'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> c) merging 2 channels into 2nd merger channel (skipping first output
>>> channel)
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6' >
>>>
>>> <Gain/>
>>>
>>> <Gain>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='1'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> </Gain>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> proposed:
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6'
>>>
>>> indexStream='0,0'
>>>
>>> indexSource='0,1'
>>>
>>> indexDestination='1,1'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> d) assign different audio streams to first and 2nd channnels (play beat
>>> in left, cnote in right)
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='2' >
>>>
>>> <Gain gain='.5'><AudioClip url='"sound/beat.mp3"'/></Gain>
>>>
>>> <Gain gain='.5'><AudioClip url='"sound/cnote.wav"'/></Gain>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> proposed:
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='2'
>>>
>>> indexSteam='0,0'
>>>
>>> indexSourc='-1,-1'
>>>
>>> indexDestination='0,1'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <Gain gain='.5'><AudioClip url='"sound/beat.mp3"'/></Gain>
>>>
>>> <Gain gain='.5'><AudioClip url='"sound/cnote.wav"'/></Gain>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> e) assign different audio streams to first and 2nd channnels via
>>> splitter take first channel (play beat in left, cnote in right)
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='2' >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelChoice='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter channelCount='2'><AudioClip
>>> url='"sound/beat.mp3"'/></ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelChoice='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter channelCount='2'><AudioClip
>>> url='"sound/cnote.wav"'/></ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> proposed:
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='2'
>>>
>>> indexStream='0,1'
>>>
>>> indexSourc='0,0'
>>>
>>> indexDestination='0,1'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter channelCount='2'><AudioClip
>>> url='"sound/beat.mp3"'/></ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter channelCount='2'><AudioClip
>>> url='"sound/cnote.wav"'/></ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> /CHANNEL NODE DESIGN COMPARISON
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 10:20 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> CHANNEL NODE DESIGN COMPARISON
>>>
>>> v4: channel nodes as written in v4 Spec Draft Sound Component
>>>
>>> Doug proposed: add 2 fields to ChannelMerger MFInt32 indxDst and indxSrc
>>> and eliminate ChannelSelector node
>>>
>>> I have both v4 and Doug proposed implemented in freewrl: if indxDst or
>>> indxSrc is empty, thunks to v4
>>>
>>> I tested both methods on 3 scenarios and they both work as follows:
>>>
>>> a) swapping 2 channels
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6' >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='1'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> Doug proposed
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6'
>>>
>>> indxSrc='0,1'
>>>
>>> indxDst='1,0'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> b) merging 2 channels into 1
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6' >
>>>
>>> <Gain>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='1'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> </Gain>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> Doug proposed
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6'
>>>
>>> indxSrc='0,1'
>>>
>>> indxDst='0,0'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> c) merging 2 channels into 2nd merger channel (skipping first output
>>> channel)
>>>
>>> v4
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6' >
>>>
>>> <Gain/>
>>>
>>> <Gain>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='1'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSelector channelSelection='0'>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSelector>
>>>
>>> </Gain>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>> Doug proposed:
>>>
>>> <ChannelMerger channelCount='6'
>>>
>>> indxSrc='0,1'
>>>
>>> indxDst='1,1'
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter DEF='Channel_Splitter' channelCount='6'>
>>>
>>> <AudioClip url='"sound/6_Channel_ID.wav"'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelSplitter>
>>>
>>> <ChannelSplitter USE='Channel_Splitter'/>
>>>
>>> </ChannelMerger>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> /CHANNEL NODE DESIGN COMPARISON
>>>
>>> -Doug
>>>
>>>
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