[x3d-public] MIDI suggestions (GPU Group)
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Sat Aug 24 09:50:39 PDT 2024
"100 SFBools" something related: for the MIDI nodes I split into 2 node
types, one that sent an MFInt32 (or MFDouble for MIDI 2.0) with all the
events for the current timestamp, and one that split the MFInt32 up into
SFBools, and had an 'octave filter' so it only needed 12 SFBool out fields
to serve an octave. And then to get all octaves, I routed the MFInt32 to
multiple splitter nodes, each with the octave filter set differently. So
something similar could be done for GeneralSequencer, using a decade /
decuple filter.
The Int32s carried a tuple: the note on full scale, and a bit int for
boolean value T pressed or F released, so each int was first split, then
note filtered by octave before applying boolean to SFBool output field
-Doug
On Sat, Aug 24, 2024 at 2:24 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Indeed, a MIDI SF field and MF field seems useful, if not covered by other
> fields or nodes. Perhaps an existing node or proto node could do. I
> would probably handle 100 SFBools and an MFBool plus SFInt32 length, but
> checkable so not as to create buffer overruns. I understand that fixed
> size nodes are desirable, maybe an MFBool could be implemented like
> MFString.
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 3:41 PM GPU Group via x3d-public <
> x3d-public at web3d.org> wrote:
>
>> Very interesting Web MIDI API. I think the next move is up to the html
>> web3d browser gurus.
>> -Doug
>> In native C browser freewrl I made toneSplitter and toneMerger
>> node types. The toneSplitter would filter by octave and had out field for
>> each note C Cs D Ds E F Fs G Gs A As B so if you want to animate something
>> when it hits a certain note, you can catch the note, and in that way MIDI
>> becomes a general event sequencing method. I had a player-piano demo scene
>> that animated and played a note from a USB hardware midi keyboard. And
>> going the other way, a playable-piano scene where I could mouse-click a key
>> on a scene keyboard and it would route it to ToneMerger node and get to the
>> output MIDI port.
>> But to get between ports and the rendering thread I used threads and
>> message queues.
>> Q. for Web MIDI - is there a way to do something like the
>> ToneSplitter/ToneMerger without needing threading or extra message queues?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 12:13 PM Andreas Plesch via x3d-public <
>> x3d-public at web3d.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I was curious and found there is a Web MIDI API:
>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_MIDI_API
>>> which is supported on Browsers other than Safari.
>>> There is also a support library: https://webmidijs.org/
>>> This is focused on connected external input devices like a keyboard,
>>> not necessarily on playing midi files.
>>> There is a midi file player: https://cifkao.github.io/html-midi-player/
>>> which uses https://github.com/magenta/magenta-js/tree/master/music/
>>> which does its own TensorFlow(!) based tone generation.
>>> I also found
>>> https://surikov.github.io/webaudiofont/examples/midiplayer.html
>>> which seems capable.
>>> -Andreas
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 12:16 PM <x3d-public-request at web3d.org> wrote:
>>> >
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>>> > Today's Topics:
>>> >
>>> > 1. Re: MIDI suggestions (GPU Group)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 1
>>> > Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 10:15:13 -0600
>>> > From: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>>> > To: "Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion"
>>> > <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> > Subject: Re: [x3d-public] MIDI suggestions
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> > <CAM2ogRfZ8=+3K+pHdu2DiNLRB=
>>> A3WJyzoesn+UYUcPu_PYaHBg at mail.gmail.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >
>>> > Don,
>>> > I used MIDI Editor but just briefly, didn't master it.
>>> > PROTOS > General Sequencing Node - something that sequences similar to
>>> MIDI
>>> > that could be done in a PROTO is a general sequencing node, which could
>>> > have the benefits of a text/string field for in-scene hacking and
>>> multiple
>>> > output fields like the MIDI music octave style node type.
>>> > GeneralSequencer {
>>> > SFString in/out sequence
>>> > SFTime in start
>>> > SFBool out o1
>>> > SFBool out o2
>>> > SFBool out o3
>>> > ...
>>> > SFBool out o100
>>> > }
>>> > example
>>> > DEF GS1 GeneralSequencer {
>>> > # out field number, out field value, time offset from start
>>> > sequence "
>>> > 1 T 0.0
>>> > 1 F 0.25
>>> > 1 T 1.0
>>> > 2 T 1.0
>>> > 3 T 1.0
>>> > 4 T 1.0
>>> > "
>>> > # or time offset from start, out value, list of fields
>>> > "
>>> > 0.0 T 1,
>>> > .25 F 1,
>>> > 1.0 T 1 2 3 4,
>>> > "
>>> > or something like that
>>> > }
>>> > The general sequencer could be convenient for naval simulations -with
>>> the
>>> > string sequence being replaced according to different attack or
>>> submersible
>>> > robot maneuvers.
>>> > And convenient for musical HANIM sequences to synchronize musical riff
>>> play
>>> > --using standard sound nodes-- and certain humanoid articulations.
>>> > On each frame the Proto code would check if there are any in the
>>> sequence
>>> > that have (start + offset) time > current time and haven't been
>>> played, and
>>> > play them.
>>> >
>>> > -Doug
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 8:54?AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>>> > brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > OK very good, thanks for information Doug.
>>> > >
>>> > > Meanwhile, am hoping to improve the MIDI files that we have, and
>>> > > potentially add more examples. Wondering if there is a good
>>> open-source
>>> > > software tool for MIDI?
>>> > >
>>> > > I looked again within Audacity, which is an excellent open source
>>> tool.
>>> > > It does support MIDI but does not seem to give any information about
>>> what
>>> > > type of MIDI file is loaded or exported. Some vulnerabilities are
>>> noted in
>>> > > NIST National Vulnerability Database but they are all on very old
>>> versions,
>>> > > so it seems trustworthy. Linked for installation and easy use within
>>> > > X3D-Edit as a helper application.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - https://www.audacityteam.org
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/search/results?form_type=Basic&results_type=overview&search_type=all&query=Audacity
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Previous I was using MuseScore every now and then. However an
>>> upgrade
>>> > > earlier this year integrated some kind of p2p streaming activity
>>> (aka Muse
>>> > > Hub) that triggered a variety of security warnings, so I stopped
>>> using it.
>>> > > However, I now see that they offer a version without Muse Hub, will
>>> try
>>> > > again.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - https://musescore.org/en
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/search/results?form_type=Basic&results_type=overview&search_type=all&query=musescore
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > The midieditor looks possible but it is free software (hobbyist) and
>>> not
>>> > > open source, so less appealing. Also does not have an https server,
>>> which
>>> > > is a red flag.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - http://www.midieditor.org
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Am hoping to test binary and text-based MIDI (and possibly MIDI
>>> version 1
>>> > > and 2) using different versions of the example file.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Wondering if there are any open-source audio tools you can recommend
>>> that
>>> > > support
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - Identifying MIDI version within a file,
>>> > > - Exporting between different MIDI formats
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > all the best, Don
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> > > brutzman at nps.edu
>>> > >
>>> > > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> > > +1.831.656.2149
>>> > >
>>> > > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>> > > https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ------------------------------
>>> > > *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> on behalf of GPU
>>> Group
>>> > > via x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> > > *Sent:* Friday, August 23, 2024 7:18 AM
>>> > > *Cc:* GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>; Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics
>>> public
>>> > > discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] MIDI suggestions
>>> > >
>>> > > Don,
>>> > > MIDI via PROTOs > working in C I used threads and queues between the
>>> MIDI
>>> > > port and the x3d rendering thread, and I don't know how to do that
>>> with
>>> > > PROTOs. But it might be different with Web MIDI API. So one idea is
>>> to wait
>>> > > until/in-case one of the web based x3d browsers implements a MIDI
>>> component
>>> > > using PROTOs, and see how they did that, and then the native
>>> browsers can
>>> > > adapt to that.
>>> > > -Doug
>>> > >
>>> > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 6:35?PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>>> > > brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Understood. The work you describe regarding MIDI nodes looks quite
>>> > > involved. Possible component extension if someone did the work
>>> involved.
>>> > > Implementing as Prototype library using Script nodes might work.
>>> Writing
>>> > > extensions for X_ITE or X3DOM might work. In each case that would be
>>> > > proof-of-capability and maybe not a path to wide availability.
>>> > >
>>> > > I think it is doubtful that MIDI editing would be accepted as a
>>> high-value
>>> > > use case and recommended practice for X3D 4.1, which might take an
>>> > > undetermined length of time anyway. Seems like a long, unlikely and
>>> > > unsatisfying path to pursue. Nevertheless possible.
>>> > >
>>> > > I looked in Audacity briefly for "saving as" MIDI ASCII but didn't
>>> find
>>> > > it. Perhaps I missed it or another tool is useful.
>>> > >
>>> > > If we do have a text-base example MIDI file archived, that might
>>> encourage
>>> > > use of other online editors. Note how X_ITE is already able to show
>>> XML,
>>> > > ClassicVRML and JSON encodings equivalently (see links in upper-right
>>> > > corner).
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - X_ITE Playground Editor
>>> > > - X3D Example Archives: X3D4WA, X3D for Web Authors, Chapter 05
>>> > > Appearance Material Textures, Pixel Texture Snowman
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowman.x3d
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - ... but has error: Couldn't load URL '
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/frosty2.mid'.EncodingError
>>> :
>>> > > Failed to execute 'decodeAudioData' on 'BaseAudioContext': Unable
>>> to decode
>>> > > audio data
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - X3DOM similarly seems to have a problem paying the midi file
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowmanX3dom.xhtml
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - Nothing heard using latest FreeWrl
>>> > > - Nothing heard using current Castle Model Viewer
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Audacity plays the .midi file OK. Might there be a problem with the
>>> file?
>>> > >
>>> > > Regarding sound-related implementations, am hoping we get more
>>> examples
>>> > > and start showing compelling implementation support for the Web
>>> Audio API
>>> > > nodes that are already added to the X3D 4.0 Sound Component. Huge
>>> but
>>> > > unrealized potential is already available to us...
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - Spatial Sound in X3DOM with Web Audio API
>>> > > - https://medialab.hmu.gr/minipages/x3domAudio
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - X3D Example Archives: X3D4AM, X3D for Advanced Modeling, Audio
>>> > > Spatial Sound
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForAdvancedModeling/AudioSpatialSound/
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Again thanks for pushing on the limits, hope these potential paths
>>> forward
>>> > > can help us focus further progress.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > all the best, Don
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> > > brutzman at nps.edu
>>> > >
>>> > > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> > > +1.831.656.2149
>>> > >
>>> > > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>> > > https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ------------------------------
>>> > > *From:* GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>>> > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 22, 2024 11:20 AM
>>> > > *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>> > > *Cc:* Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> > > >
>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] MIDI suggestions
>>> > > .
>>> > > Don,
>>> > > The current Sound component doesn't have a way to look at each MIDI
>>> note
>>> > > as an event, nor to create MIDI notes with events during scene
>>> execution.
>>> > > See this proposed separate 43 MIDI Component which allows that.
>>> > > https://freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/43_MIDI/
>>> > > freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/43_MIDI/NOTES_midi.txt
>>> > > -Doug
>>> > >
>>> > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 11:16?AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>>> > > brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Doug, thanks for your suggestions.
>>> > >
>>> > > Regarding MIDI support:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - *X3D 4.0 Architecture, 16 Sound component, 16.4.2 AudioClip*
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/sound.html#AudioClip
>>> > > - The *url* field specifies the URL from which the sound file is
>>> > > loaded. 16.2.6 Audio encoding formats
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/sound.html#AudioEncodingFormats>
>>> describes
>>> > > required and recommended file format support. 9.2.1 URLs, URNs
>>> and URIs
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/networking.html#URLs>
>>> contains
>>> > > details on the *url* field.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > - *X3D 4.0 Architecture, 16 Sound component, 16.2.6 Audio encoding
>>> > > formats*
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/sound.html#AudioEncodingFormats
>>> > >
>>> > > X3D browsers shall support at least the *wavefile* format in
>>> uncompressed
>>> > > PCM format (see [WAV]
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/bibliography.html#WAV
>>> >
>>> > > ).
>>> > > It is recommended that X3D browsers support the MIDI file type 1
>>> sound
>>> > > format (see [MIDI 1.0]
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#MIDI-1
>>> >).
>>> > > MIDI files are presumed to use the General MIDI patch set.
>>> > > X3D browser support is also recommended for MIDI 2.0 (see [MIDI 2.0]
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#MIDI-2>
>>> and
>>> > > Web MIDI API (see [W3C-WebMIDI]
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#W3C-WebMIDI
>>> >
>>> > > ).
>>> > > It is also recommended that X3D browsers support the following
>>> formats:
>>> > >
>>> > > - Format=MP3, container=MP3, compressed (see [I11172-1]
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#I11172_1
>>> >
>>> > > ).
>>> > > - Format=AAC, container=MP4 (see [14496-14]
>>> > > <
>>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#14496_14
>>> >
>>> > > ).
>>> > >
>>> > > Example X3Dscene with MIDI content:
>>> > >
>>> > > - X3D Example Archives: X3D4WA, X3D for Web Authors, Chapter 05
>>> > > Appearance Material Textures, Pixel Texture Snowman
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowmanIndex.html
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowman.x3d
>>> > > -
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/frosty2.mid
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Regarding MIDI content in ASCII form, it is certainly not disallowed
>>> in
>>> > > the X3D specification. Might you please send some references and an
>>> > > example? Perhaps an ASCII plaintext version of frosty2.
>>> > >
>>> > > Have fun with X3D and MIDI! 8)
>>> > >
>>> > > all the best, Don
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> > > brutzman at nps.edu
>>> > >
>>> > > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> > > +1.831.656.2149
>>> > >
>>> > > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>> > > https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ------------------------------
>>> > > *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> on behalf of GPU
>>> Group
>>> > > via x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2024 3:14 PM
>>> > > *To:* Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> > > >
>>> > > *Cc:* GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] Web3D 2024: HAnim Music Animation
>>> competition
>>> > > - Win cash prizes!
>>> > >
>>> > > MIDI > at least one web3d browser supports MIDI with nodes that give
>>> > > events, which could be used to synchronize HAnim motions to music
>>> tones /
>>> > > beats, or vice versa.
>>> > > Something missing from prior work: a node that holds MIDI directly in
>>> > > ASCII format, for easy tinkering in X3D scene file.
>>> > > -Doug
>>> > >
>>> > >
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andreas Plesch
>>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
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