[x3d-public] [create ..Don't give up ,,, 20b

[John Carlson]

Deleting the armature and Blender bones may allow the routes to find the
(joint) object and not the bone.

That might be the best approach or renaming objects so they don’t have the
same name as Blender bones.  This gets kind of deep, because the Transforms
might get renamed as well, unless we do a tag test, or copy and paste
code.  We’re already doing that for matrix multiplication.

But then, we’ll have to fix up JoeSkin*Kick and Gramps.

AFAIK, joint animation is working perfectly well, so I’m hesitant to change
it.

So I’d rather make a simple Transform (object) hierarchy rotation test and
import it first before hacking on bones.

Hmm!

John

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 4:56 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> There’s a perfectly adequate hierarchy in Blender.  The next step is to
> delete or not insert any bones or armature.
>
> John
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 4:50 PM Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> >  There are no Transforms in the Blender object hierarchy, just a
>> matrix field of Object called “matrix_world”
>>
>>
>> The matrix hierarchy includes as one of its actions, the idea of a
>> translation. For HAnim this value is initialized to the equivalent of
>> axis-angle 0 0 1 0 all angles zero. When the hierarchy is evaluated, joint
>> rotation by joint rotation the Joint either stays at 0 0 1 0 or moves to
>> the commanded rotation, so the matrix for each 'transform' or object or
>> whatever Blender calls them from the root, to the extremities.
>> Incidentally, if a matrix is the only user interface available, then you
>> have not found the right button to show it in x3d terms (axis-angle or unit
>> quaternion) and I can't remember seeing pure marix for this data in the
>> gltf. Incidentally, the x3d SAI can do matrix operations.
>>
>>
>>
>> As for the Blender gui, see the indents, in and out to show hierarchy. I
>> think the last one I saw blew because of too much stuff. The latest
>> skeleton I sent has the 'transforms' but was empty, and that is all that is
>> needed to go for an accurate import to blender or any. Whatever the Blender
>> can export, probably have to do some editing of various stuff, but most
>> important that the hierarchy is maintained. The names are not so important,
>> the main thing is to get a good loa4 hierarchy into Blender and then start
>> adding surfaces and accessories stuffs that can be exported back to x3d and
>> worked for real time running. In the old days there was a couple of editors
>> that worked native in x3d Classic or xml but most got bought out. Imagine
>> any of the tools we have now that would add even some simple geometry and
>> animation editing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Where are those playgrounds I saw last month?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for All,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Jun 3, 2024 2:05 PM
>> To: Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [create ..Don't give up ,,, 20b
>>
>>
>> There’s no “Call.”  One creates instances of the Object type using DEF’s
>> value as you suggest.  There are no Transforms in the Blender object
>> hierarchy, just a matrix field of Object called “matrix_world” which
>> contains an instance of the Matrix type.
>>
>> I have attempted to share images and .blend files showing the object
>> hierarchy, but apparently you’ve not looked at them, otherwise you would
>> know that there’s a whole object hierarchy separate from Blender bones but
>> attached to the armature, with the top level node called
>> “hanim_humanoid_root.”  A last gasp effort might be to get rid of the
>> armature, but that would mean we would be closely tied to HAnim naming,
>> which is undesirable, especially when people can call things in blender
>> whatever they like.
>>
>> I have spent months trying to get local orientation interpolators working.
>>
>> The whole point of doing work with Blender was to add an armature and
>> Blender bones.  There’s no real value add with objects as transforms unless
>> we can get local rotations working during keyframe creation.  I have two
>> questions on StackExchange asking about this.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 3:28 PM Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > Can anyone tell that I’m burned out with programming Blender
>>> Python?  Just when you want to give up, try the attached.This is just a
>>> bare loa4 with all Joint and Segment and Site nodes.    If you can import
>>> this transform hierarchy, then we can just add geometry wherever, no skin
>>> now.     Joint and Segment and Site are just Transforms with some special
>>> fields, none of which are used in this basic import. If it won't let you
>>> call it a Joint or Segment or Site, then use the DEF name with Joint or
>>> Segment, or Site in front. Good Luck. This should be able to be imported
>>> into anything, with some care.  The objective is to get away from the
>>> authoring tool default skeleton or armature or whatever, and be easy to
>>> pick this one and change dimensions as desired. Then you start with a good
>>> skeleton and go forward.Thanks,Joe
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Jun 3, 2024 12:53 PM
>>> To: Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org>,
>>> Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>, create3000/sunrize <
>>> reply+AAFMJ5YNMQD2V3WUI2UO2AOEMMNGREVBNHHITSFMII at reply.github.com>, <
>>> h-anim at web3d.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [create3000/sunrize] Joe doesn't kick or move
>>> in sunrize. (Issue #6)
>>>
>>>
>>> More likely, using geometry outside and inside the Humanoid causes it to
>>> be drawn twice.  There’s no shape field in HAnimJoint that I know of.
>>> Subnodes, yes, obviously.  Perhaps Displacers are a form of geometry, IDK.
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell that I’m burned out with programming Blender Python?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 4:39 AM Michalis Kamburelis <
>>> michalis.kambi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Note: Listing the joints inside HAnimHumanoid.joints does not make them
>>>> drawn. Nothing would be drawn twice. I'm saying this to address incorrect
>>>> statement in this thread """Finally, the browser must actually ignore those
>>>> fields  because otherwise the thing would be drawn twice, once with DEFs
>>>> and once with USEs. in those fields.  """ . No, nothing would be drawn
>>>> twice.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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