[x3d-public] Turning on and off simultaneous animations individually

John Carlson yottzumm at gmail.com
Tue Feb 4 14:30:55 PST 2025 

Soon for not including a reference to ProtoInstance source code:

https://github.com/coderextreme/ci2had/blob/ed5b5cc3d586dce3e697d17a45a2a66c71a9fb28/python/manyclocks.py#L451

This is a pointer to the emotions loop, the Reset MenuItem and FACS action
units (AU in ProtoInstance MenuItem DEF) loop are below.  Note how the
ROUTEs involving startTime, stopTime and enabled events are below the
ProtoInstance.

I hope this clears things up that the associated <fieldValue>s are actually
required.

John
On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 3:23 PM Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sorry for not following this thread from the start, I just saw a
> mention of castle-model-converter making warnings on the testcase. I
> confirm they also occur with latest Castle Model Viewer.
>
> Looking at the testcase, I think Castle Model Viewer/Converter
> warnings are right. They say:
>
> """
> X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element references unknown field name
> "startTime"
> X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element references unknown field name "stopTime"
> X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element references unknown field name "enabled"
> """
>
> because you have XML elements
>
> <fieldValue name="startTime" />
> <fieldValue name="stopTime" />
> <fieldValue name="enabled" />
>
> inside the prototype instance of MenuItem (<ProtoInstance ....
> name="MenuItem">).
>
> But the prototype declaration (<ProtoDeclare name="MenuItem">) says
> these are "output only" events. They are "events", not fields, so
> strictly speaking they have no "persistent" value, at least that's how
> X3D specification treats them. (And that's how CGE implements them,
> events really hold no persistent value, they only pass values.)
>
> """
>         <field name="startTime" accessType="outputOnly" type="SFTime"
> value='0' />
>         <field name="stopTime" accessType="outputOnly" type="SFTime"
> value='0'/>
>         <field name="enabled" accessType="outputOnly" type="SFBool"
> value='false'/>
> """
>
> I understand that for JS scripts, it may make sense to specify a value
> even for outputOnly field (if one accesses from JS Script a value of
> output event that wasn't yet generated, which I understand is possible
> from standard JS API), but that's X3DOM extension, as Andreas pointed
> out.
>
> I don't think spec allows to specify values for such output events --
> again, they are not even "fields" using spec terminology, so
> "fieldValue" would be confusing :) The spec specifies "default value
> of an uninitialized xxx field" in
>
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/fieldTypes.html
> to serve as a fallback in edge-cases, like above.
>
> Moreover, note that in this specific case, these do not seem to serve
> any purpose. XML elements
>
> <fieldValue name="startTime" />
> <fieldValue name="stopTime" />
> <fieldValue name="enabled" />
>
> .... do not actually contain any value :) ( Again, sorry for not
> following this thread from start -- I do not know how the file was
> generated/created. ) I looks like they should just be removed.
>
> Regards,
> Michalis
>
> wt., 4 lut 2025 o 21:55 John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> napisał(a):
> >
> > I have added default values in the ProtoDeclare for outputOnly fields,
> reverting back to passing out startTime, stopTime and enabled.
> >
> > Referring to this repository:
> >
> > https://github.com/coderextreme/ci2had/
> >
> > I primarily wish to get this working:
> https://github.com/coderextreme/ci2had/blob/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d,
> but first, I want to get ManyClocks.x3d working, because it precedes
> CleanedYouClocks.x3d, but feel free to get it working first (it's a cleaned
> up version).
> >
> > If all else fails, I'll probably strip out the Proto (ugh!).
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > I have confirmed that this doesn't animate:
> >
> >
> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/ManyClocks.x3d
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > This does animate:
> >
> >
> https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/ManyClocks.x3d
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Castle Model Converter produces errors.  The viewer doesn't animate,
> probably because I use HAnimDisplacers. There are no scripts, in an attempt
> to appease people who don't like scripts.  We now have a good example that
> has HAnimDisplacers, but no scripts.
> >
> > $
> ~/Downloads/castle-model-viewer-5.3.0-win64-x86_64/castle-model-viewer/castle-model-converter.exe
> --validate resources/ManyClocks.x3d 2>&1 |sort -u
> > castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element
> references unknown field name "enabled"
> > castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element
> references unknown field name "startTime"
> > castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element
> references unknown field name "stopTime"
> > Exception "Exception":
> > Validation failed (consult the warnings above), exiting with non-zero
> status
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > FreeWRL  kills JavaScript for some reason (there's no Script), but still
> doesn;'t animate (try pressing Fear).
> >
> > $ /c/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/freeWRL/freeWRL.6.7/freeWRL.exe
> resources/ManyClocks.x3d
> >
> > MidiInWinMM::initialize: no MIDI input devices currently available.
> >
> > libfreewrl version 6.7.0
> > -h for commandline use
> > openGL version 4.6.0 NVIDIA 560.94
> > GLSL shader max version 4.60 NVIDIA 460
> > maximum texture size system/gpu: 32768 runtime/freewrl: 16384
> > processor architecture x64
> > maxiumum image texture units 32
> > depth bits 24
> > Skinning Method: GPU
> > calling kill_javascript()
> > done kill_javascript
> > Ending texture load thread gracefully
> > finalizeRenderSceneUpdateScene
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Schematron reports a bunch of problems, all of which I ignore.  See
> attached. log and build.xml
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > There are many info issues when validating with X3DJSAIL, but I'm not
> sure about this one:
> > $ java -cp ~/Downloads/X3DJSAIL.4.0.full.jar
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.CommandLine -validate resources/ManyClocks.x3d|grep -v
> > info
> > [snip]
> > org.web3d.x3d.sai.InvalidFieldException: IndexedFaceSet containing
> TextureCoordinate node with 295 values must also include texCoordIndex or
> coordIndex field
> >         at
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.Geometry3D.IndexedFaceSet.validate(IndexedFaceSet.java:3756)
> >         at org.web3d.x3d.jsail.Shape.Shape.validate(Shape.java:2060)
> >         at
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.Grouping.Transform.validate(Transform.java:2556)
> >         at
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.HAnim.HAnimSegment.validate(HAnimSegment.java:6175)
> >         at
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.HAnim.HAnimJoint.validate(HAnimJoint.java:7476)
> >         at
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.HAnim.HAnimJoint.validate(HAnimJoint.java:7476)
> >         at
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.HAnim.HAnimHumanoid.validate(HAnimHumanoid.java:6317)
> >         at
> org.web3d.x3d.jsail.Grouping.Transform.validate(Transform.java:2556)
> >         at org.web3d.x3d.jsail.Core.Scene.validate(Scene.java:869)
> >         at org.web3d.x3d.jsail.Core.X3D.validate(X3D.java:4549)
> >         at org.web3d.x3d.jsail.CommandLine.run(CommandLine.java:1098)
> >         at org.web3d.x3d.jsail.CommandLine.main(CommandLine.java:242)
> >
> > I don't have a recent version of X3DJSAIL
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 2:22 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks, exactly what I was looking for.
> >>
> >> Best, Andreas
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2025, 2:01 PM Holger Seelig <holger.seelig at yahoo.de>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The default value for a field is either specified for each node type
> or the default value for Script or ComposedShader node custom fields is
> defined in
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/fieldTypes.html.
> Mostly false, 0, „“, identity, ...
> >>>
> >>> A proto instance will inherit its default values from the proto
> declaration its fields. Fields such as outputOnly will normally have a
> default value from fieldTypes.html.
> >>>
> >>> There is an exception with X3DInterpolatorNode.value_changed:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/components/interpolators.html#X3DInterpolatorNode
> >>>
> >>> If an X3DInterpolatorNode value_changed outputOnly field is read
> before it receives any inputs, keyValue[0] is returned if keyValue is not
> empty...
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Holger
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Holger Seelig
> >>> Leipzig, Germany
> >>>
> >>> holger.seelig at yahoo.de
> >>> https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/
> >>>
> >>> Am 04.02.2025 um 19:26 schrieb Andreas Plesch via x3d-public <
> x3d-public at web3d.org>:
> >>>
> >>> Hi John, all,
> >>>
> >>> It turns out that x3dom currently expects a default value for Proto
> fields even for outputOnly fields. This is due to how Proto fields are
> initialized. They always need to have a value. While the spec. does not
> require this, it seems still good practice to always define a default value
> in the ProtoInterface. There may be a case where an outputOnly field is
> used in ISing where a valid value would be expected. There may be other
> corner cases.
> >>>
> >>> Here is your example with added default values for outputOnly fields:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/af5ff3148c1159f71d34fb78c1f63024/raw/b3d4470107ab74e301ed48448ab2a4f4154672e0/ManyClocks_John.x3d
> >>>
> >>> This could be fixed in x3dom, by always setting some default value. Is
> there a list of recommended defaults for each data type if no other source
> of defaults is available? For SFTime it seems to be -1.
> >>>
> >>> -Andreas
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 7:39 AM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi John,
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 12:48 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andreas, "startTime" is an accessType outputOnly field, so why do I
> need to provide a value attribute in fieldValue?  I'm kind of confused.
> I'm probably missing something in the spec.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You are right, I only outlined scenarios where the accessType allows
> input or initialization..
> >>>> In the outputOnly case it is not necessary to provide a fieldValue
> node at all since there is no value which can be provided. Providing the
> node would indeed be confusing, to both the user code reader and any X3D
> browser.
> >>>> I believe the spec. is silent on this case in any encoding.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best, Andreas
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for any clarification.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have finally enabled schematron on the project, but I'm finding it
> hard to understand the messages, and modifications that I make, while
> removing the immediate problems, seem to move the problems elsewhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Explaining why I need a "startTime" fieldValue value is my main lack
> of understanding, but perhaps I need a whole review of accessType.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Castle Model Converter reports:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element
> references unknown field name "enabled"
> >>>>> castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element
> references unknown field name "startTime"
> >>>>> castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element
> references unknown field name "stopTime"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will try providing a field value in the ProtoInterface
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I "cleanup" enabled, startTime and stopTime, I get:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> castle-model-converter: Warning: VRML/X3D: Within prototype
> "MenuItem", event "inputTrue" references (by "IS" clause) non-existing
> event "enabled"
> >>>>> castle-model-converter: Warning: VRML/X3D: Within prototype
> "MenuItem", event "triggerTime" references (by "IS" clause) non-existing
> event "startTime"
> >>>>> castle-model-converter: Warning: VRML/X3D: Within prototype
> "MenuItem", event "triggerTime" references (by "IS" clause) non-existing
> event "stopTime"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I guess what I conclude at this point is, startTime and stopTime are
> bad DEF names, but what about enabled as a field?  The dominoes are falling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> About your two scenarios in the other message, perhaps this is
> revealing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> See attached attempt to fix original issue, which resulted in the
> above.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 3:59 PM Andreas Plesch <
> andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think x3dom, reasonably, expects a value for the fieldValue nodes:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For example:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <fieldValue name="startTime" />
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> and others.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 5:42 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Andreas, Joe,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Reset Button, Reset_Clock added.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> See attached zip for details, or visit link;
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For some reason, this link doesn't show the live scene?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Puzzled, haven't researched it yet.  Looks good in Sunrize and
> X_ITE, will try FreeWRL next.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Andreas Plesch
> >>>>>> Waltham, MA 02453
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Andreas Plesch
> >>>> Waltham, MA 02453
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Andreas Plesch
> >>> Waltham, MA 02453
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> x3d-public mailing list
> >>> x3d-public at web3d.org
> >>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> >>>
> >>>
>
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