[x3d-public] VR vs. XR was/ Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the metaverse?

John Carlson yottzumm at gmail.com
Sat May 3 13:23:05 PDT 2025 

I’m not really one to argue about names, but for a bit of history lesson,
the old argument was about artificial reality versus virtual reality.    So
now the argument might be between “digital twin” and “imitation reality.”
 This kind of hits me in the gut because mayonnaise tastes much better than
imitation mayonnaise.   My mom would buy imitation mayonnaise when it came
out instead of real mayonnaise.  Since then, I try to avoid artificial,
imitation and natural food.  “Natural” is meaningless in USA.   But I would
eat natural peanut butter with peanut and salt ingredients.  That’s the
kind you stir up.

So the question is, how do you feel imitation reality?

John


On Sat, May 3, 2025 at 8:09 AM Christoph Valentin <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I am not sure, if it is useful to start such discussion, however I took
> your answer as a trigger to rename the subject of this mail and start a
> discussion about VR vs. XR.
>
> First, I googled it and actually you are right (as expected). XR means
> "extended" reality, it does not mean "any" reality, what I thought it meant.
>
> On a first glance, the term "extended reality" sounds weird, because we
> cannot "create" reality. We can just take matter/energy and space/time and
> transform it into "something else".
>
> Also, the bits and bytes in a Web3D Browser and the pixels in the HMD are
> just "parts of the reality" that have been transformed by mankind, as any
> technology. They just have been transformed into something that is
> perceived as "something new" by the user.
>
> Now, if we take the perception of the user as the scale for being
> "something new", "something, that extends reality", then the "Good old VR"
> can be taken as XR, too.
>
> In this sense, a "good old book", would be XR, too, just it does not
> provide computer generated 3D graphics.
>
> On the other hand, I could state, that any XR experience is built by two
> components (I am not sure, comments are welcome):
>
>    - perceptions that are provided by "some technological faility" (what
>    I would call VR)
>    - perceptions that are directly provided by the "real" reality (what I
>    would call RR)
>
> The difference between the different types of XR (i.e. VR, AR, MR, ......)
> would then be just HOW those two components are combined and HOW the
> computer provided perceptions are synchronized with the "real" reality.
>
> Let me repeat my (updated) definition of VR and RR in the P.S., and let me
> state that I am not reluctant to completely replace the term VR by the term
> XR in my glossary.
>
> Have a nice weekend
> Christoph
>
> P.S.: from the "glossary of SrrTrains v0.01"
>
> Reality, Virtual Reality, Real Reality
>
> There is only one reality, but every person carries an own
> model of the reality in his/her/its mind.
>
> This model helps the person to foresee the future evolution of
> the reality and it helps the person to induce changes to the
> reality according to his/her/its will.
>
> Virtual reality is a part of the reality that is implemented by
> means of technology and that helps one or more persons (see
> user) to visit a virtual scene that needs not be directly related
> or connected to the real reality.
>
> Strictly spoken, an ancient form of virtual reality is already to
> sit around the camp fire telling stories. Also books and movies
> form kinds of virtual reality.
>
> Usually we use the narrow term of virtual reality, if some
> minimum technological requirements are fulfilled, e.g. the
> usage of stereoscopic realtime computer graphics.
>
> We use the term real reality to denote all parts of the reality
> that are not part of the virtual reality in question, but that are
> of relevance for that virtual reality.
>
> Anything else is just the reality
> *Gesendet: *Freitag, 2. Mai 2025 um 15:03
> *Von: *"Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> *An: *"John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>, "Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics
> public discussion" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *CC: *h-anim at web3d.org,hanim at web3d.org
> *Betreff: *Aw: Re: [x3d-public] Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the metaverse?
> It's funny, I always read XR = any reality, but not extended reality
>
> --
> Gesendet mit der GMX Mail App
>
>
> Am 02.05.25, 14:28 schrieb Christoph Valentin via x3d-public <x3d-public@
> web3d.org>:
>>
>> The Tower of Babel
>>
>> 11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people
>> moved eastward,[a
>> <https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2011%3A1-9&version=NIV#fen-NIV-269a>
>> ] they found a plain in Shinar[b
>> <https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2011%3A1-9&version=NIV#fen-NIV-269b>
>> ] and settled there.
>>
>> 3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them
>> thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then
>> they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches
>> to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will
>> be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
>>
>> 5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were
>> building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same
>> language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be
>> impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language
>> so they will not understand each other.”
>>
>> 8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they
>> stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c
>> <https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2011%3A1-9&version=NIV#fen-NIV-276c>
>> ]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From
>> there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
>>
>> --
>> Gesendet mit der GMX Mail App
>>
>>
>> Am 02.05.25, 14:03 schrieb John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> XR = VR + AR + MR + objective reality
>>>
>>> XR is extended reality.  Google it.
>>>
>>>  XR devices are used to enter the metaverse, webiverse, the external
>>> world.  There’s already OpenXR and WebXR standards.
>>>
>>> Come out and see what’s outside the Cave.
>>>
>>> What we haven’t handled yet is subjective reality.   Ideal reality?  IR?
>>>   Yes, UR.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 2, 2025 at 6:49 AM Christoph Valentin via x3d-public <
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Correction:
>>>>
>>>> I mean, MR does not "extend" reality, it's just a special part of
>>>> reality, which deals with immersive, interactive, multiuser story telling,
>>>> command and control
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gesendet mit der GMX Mail App
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 02.05.25, 13:41 schrieb Christoph Valentin via x3d-public
>>>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>:
>>>>
>>>>> The "metaverse" is the thing, that is perceived by the user, but
>>>>> that's nothing, that must be specified
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Gesendet mit der GMX Mail App
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 02.05.25, 13:33 schrieb Christoph Valentin via x3d-public
>>>>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like "mixed reality = virtual reality + real reality".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mean, VR does not "extend" reality, it's just a special part of
>>>>>> reality, which deals with immersive, interactive story telling, command and
>>>>>> control
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Gesendet mit der GMX Mail App
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 30.04.25, 20:33 schrieb John Carlson via x3d-public <x3d-public@
>>>>>> web3d.org>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I kind of like “Spatial Internet” is to Metaverse/World as Internet
>>>>>>> is to Website.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps “extended-reality” would be better than “virtual-reality.”
>>>>>>> Meaning we’ve extended beyond mere VR into other accessible media including
>>>>>>> the passive and active external environments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This means that real objects with behaviors can be brought into each
>>>>>>> metaverse, and many metaverses can be viewed in the metaverse, and state
>>>>>>> can transfer between metaverses via the external environments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XRML anyone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 1:06 PM Joe D Williams via x3d-public <
>>>>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This XR idea of our blossoming metaverse to integrate
>>>>>>>> realtime Spatial anchors and assets of the current reality
>>>>>>>> with realtime Scene anchors and assets of the current virtuality
>>>>>>>> means the metaverse definition of our Immersive Web
>>>>>>>> needs to be extended.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From Google Dictionary
>>>>>>>> (Current) Definition from Oxford Languages ·
>>>>>>>> met·a·verse
>>>>>>>> /ˈmedəˌvərs/
>>>>>>>> noun Computing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "a virtual-reality space in which users can interact with
>>>>>>>> a computer-generated environment and other users"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New Extended Candidate:
>>>>>>>> metaverse or webiverse or webimetaverse, or whatever, you get the
>>>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "a virtual-reality space in which a user can interact with
>>>>>>>> the real external environment,
>>>>>>>> a computer-generated environment,
>>>>>>>> and other real and virtual users"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All Good for the WWW,
>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>
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