[x3d-public] No Transform/Group/Shape inside HAnimJoint?

[Joe D Williams]

> HAnimJoint.

The acceptable children for Joint in Basic skeleton are
Displacer (for Segment geometry), Joint, Segment.
Segment children=any x3d and Site .
Site children=any x3d.






-----Original Message-----
From: Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org></x3d-public at web3d.org>
Sent: Sep 9, 2025 3:50 AM
To: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com></yottzumm at gmail.com>
Cc: Don Brutzman <don.brutzman at gmail.com>, <hanim at web3d.org>, Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org></x3d-public at web3d.org></hanim at web3d.org></don.brutzman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] No Transform/Group/Shape inside HAnimJoint?

Hi John. Option 3 please. Recommend fixing the example models, not deleting the example models. The X3D specification implementation of the HAnim specification, both of which are authoritative, clearly shows that Transform/Group/Shape child nodes belong under HAnimSegment, not under HAnimJoint. * 26.3.5 HAnimSegment* https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimSegment

No doubt the errors you have reported here are already detected and reported repeatedly by X3D XML Schema,X3D DOCTYPE, and X3D Schematron. Periodic unit testing logs capture such errors, X3D-Edit can check validation comprehensively as well Proper validation and correction of models prevents Garbage In Garbage Out (GIGO) syndrome.

Incidentally, a large number of people have worked long + hard for years to implement both specifications. There is no need to worry about “fixing” the authoritative HAnim and X3D specifications unless you have a valid example demonstrating why such a change is needed. Have fun with valid X3D models! 🥸👌 all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics
https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
On Mon, Sep 8, 2025 at 8:36 PM John Carlson via x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org (mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org)=""> wrote:I suggest we either deep six examples with Transform/Group/Shape children of HAnimJoint, or fix the standard. Here's the standard I am referring to: HAnimJoint : X3DGroupingNode { MFNode [in] addChildren [HAnimJoint,HAnimSegment] MFNode [in] removeChildren [HAnimJoint,HAnimSegment] SFVec3f [in,out] center 0 0 0 (-∞,∞)` MFNode [in,out] children [] [HAnimJoint,HAnimSegment] SFString [in,out] description "" MFNode [in,out] displacers [] [HAnimDisplacer] SFBool [in,out] bboxDisplay FALSE SFRotation [in,out] limitOrientation 0 0 1 0 [-1,1] or (-∞,∞) MFFloat [in,out] llimit [0 0 0] (-∞,∞) SFNode [in,out] metadata NULL [X3DMetadataObject] SFString [in,out] name "" SFRotation [in,out] rotation 0 0 1 0 [-1,1] or (-∞,∞) SFVec3f [in,out] scale 1 1 1 (0,∞) SFRotation [in,out] scaleOrientation 0 0 1 0 [-1,1] or (-∞,∞) MFInt32 [in,out] skinCoordIndex [] [0,∞) MFFloat [in,out] skinCoordWeight [] [0,1] MFFloat [in,out] stiffness [0 0 0] [0,1] SFVec3f [in,out] translation 0 0 0 (-∞,∞) MFFloat [in,out] ulimit [0 0 0] (-∞,∞) SFBool [in,out] visible TRUE SFVec3f [] bboxCenter 0 0 0 (-∞,∞) SFVec3f [] bboxSize -1 -1 -1 [0,∞) or −1 −1 −1}See examples in the archive, e.g.:Humanoid Animation X3D Examples Archive, Winter And Spring, Lily Animated ()Humanoid Animation X3D Examples Archive, Winter And Spring, Leif Animated (https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/WinterAndSpring/LeifAnimatedIndex.html (https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimJoint))Humanoid Animation X3D Examples Archive, Winter And Spring, Tufani Animated ()If HAnimJoint IS a X3DGroupingNode, then X3DChildNodes should be acceptable. Is that how to read the standard?https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/grouping.html#X3DGroupingNode10.3.2 (https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/WinterAndSpring/TufaniAnimatedIndex.html) X3DGroupingNodeX3DGroupingNode : X3DChildNode, X3DBoundedObject { MFNode [in] addChildren [X3DChildNode] MFNode [in] removeChildren [X3DChildNode] MFNode [in,out] children [] [X3DChildNode] SFBool [in,out] bboxDisplay FALSE SFNode [in,out] metadata NULL [X3DMetadataObject] SFBool [in,out] visible TRUE SFVec3f [] bboxCenter 0 0 0 (-∞,∞) SFVec3f [] bboxSize -1 -1 -1 [0,∞) or −1 −1 −1}Anyway, that seems *REALLY* confusing! Any clarification on "overloading" of fields welcome! Thanks, John_______________________________________________</x3d-public at web3d.org>
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