[x3d-public] Mantis 1530: Avoiding exhaustive EXPORT statements within HAnimHumanoid skeleton
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Mon Apr 27 11:38:15 PDT 2026
Q. How much of what you are trying to do with Importing an HAnim could be
done with ExternProto?
-Doug
On Mon, Apr 27, 2026, 11:12 a.m. GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> " looks up the joint by name in the HAnimMotion" should read " looks up
> the joint by name in the HAnimHumanoid"
> -Doug
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 11:11 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> PS I already implemented an HAnimMotionInterpolator node type in freewrl
>> and have a working example. and doesn't rely on run-time generation of
>> routes - on each HAnimHumanoid draw, it goes down the (MFNode) list of
>> interpolators, matches to a corresponding (MFString) list of joint names,
>> and looks up the joint by name in the HAnimMotion, and applies the value.
>> A benefit (vs. direct routing to joints by DEF name): if you have
>> different skins for different level of detail, you can wrap multiple
>> HAnimHumanoid in an LOD node, and DEF/USE the same Motion or
>> MotionInterpolator node -- no re-routing or duplicating of routes.
>> Doesn't break old scenes which can still use joint DEF and routes.
>> Might help with the IMPORT EXPORT issue for new scenes.
>> -Doug
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 9:43 AM Don Brutzman <don.brutzman at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for looking at this. Topic certainly requires careful thought.
>>>
>>> DEF identifiers are definitely needed for event ROUTEs, particularly for
>>> PositionInterpolator and OrientationInterpolator. This is not something
>>> that can be removed without breaking legacy content and backwards
>>> compatibility.
>>>
>>> Writing a specialty node that does name lookup is an appealing concept.
>>> I'd suggest the following approach:
>>>
>>> - X3D Script node that walks HAnimHumanoid tree(s) and creates ROUTE
>>> connections at run time,
>>> - inputs would be an input PositionInterpolator, an input MFNode
>>> array of OrientationInterpolator nodes, and a target HAnimHumanoid,
>>> - if single case works, can wrap it in a prototype definition and
>>> re-use it as an external prototype,
>>> - requires careful author testing, as ever, and
>>> - requires javascript support at run time
>>>
>>> Interestingly, construction of such ROUTE connections might also be a
>>> modeling task for authoring environments such as X3D-Edit, X3DJSAIL in
>>> Java, X3DPSAIL x3d.py in Python, and other tools.
>>>
>>> HAnimMotion node is a completely different approach and requires
>>> different handling. I'd like to build more examples (at some point) before
>>> considering alterations to that implementation pattern. It seems prudent
>>> to avoid defining a new node until we have fully explored modeling and
>>> extensibility options with the current architectures.
>>>
>>> Have fun building HAnimHumanoid event graphs! 😁
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>> --
>>> X3D Graphics, Maritime Robotics, Distributed Simulation
>>> Relative Motion Consulting https://RelativeMotion.info
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 5:00 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Q. does anyone need DEFs for joints?
>>>> - HAnimMotion nodes can lookup the name field
>>>> - when animating with interpolators, there can be a new node type
>>>> HAnimMotionInterpolator and the interpolators route to the
>>>> HAnimMotionInterpolator which can do the name lookup. like HAnimMotion node
>>>> does.
>>>> -Doug
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2026 at 10:49 PM Don Brutzman <don.brutzman at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a request for X3D browser implementers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe and I are making good progress on building models that add
>>>>> additional bones/teeth/cartilage, providing a new LOA-5 for HAnim. LOA-5
>>>>> keeps building on progressive Level of Articulation (LOA) 0..4 ranging from
>>>>> simple to sophisticated HAnim models.
>>>>>
>>>>> We will soon be able to test EXPORT and IMPORT of HAnimHumanoid models
>>>>> in full detail for use with multiple interpolator sets. Our goal is to
>>>>> demonstrate simplified sharing and composition of HAnim models in X3D.
>>>>>
>>>>> A recent improvement to X3D4 v4.1 draft was to deprecate USE nodes at
>>>>> the top level of an HAnimHumanoid since they are superfluous, verbose, and
>>>>> potentially error prone if defined incorrectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on current efforts, we'd like to recommend something similar.
>>>>> If a HAnimHumanoid model is EXPORTed and then IMPORTed, the corresponding
>>>>> EXPORT and IMPORT of every contained joint, segment and site is similarly
>>>>> superfluous since such nodes are detectable automatically without
>>>>> ambiguity. HAnim naming conventions for matching prefixed DEF labels with
>>>>> the corresponding name field in each given node are quite strict. Thus
>>>>> manually redefining hundreds of predictable EXPORT and IMPORT statements
>>>>> for each re-use seems unnecessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for considering this coding task. It will have a notable
>>>>> improvement on authoring simplicity, humanoid portability and model
>>>>> robustness.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Mantis issue describing this proposal follows.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Mantis 1530: Avoiding exhaustive EXPORT statements within
>>>>> HAnimHumanoid skeleton
>>>>> - https://mantis.web3d.org/view.php?id=1530
>>>>>
>>>>> Description Any HAnimHumanoid skeleton can have a lot of HAnimJoint
>>>>> and HAnimSegment and HAnimSite children. For LOA-5, it is hundreds of such
>>>>> children.
>>>>>
>>>>> These child nodes are always carefully identified, with pairwise DEF
>>>>> and name fields that match exactly according to HAnim requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> If an X3D model with an HAnimHumanoid includes an EXPORT statement
>>>>> allowing re-use by other X3D scenes, then browsers need to automatically
>>>>> EXPORT all of the subordinate HAnim nodes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, if a HAnimHumanoid is IMPORTed for animation re-use in a
>>>>> different X3D scene, browsers need to automatically IMPORT all of the
>>>>> subordinate HAnim nodes.
>>>>> Additional Information Example:
>>>>> - X3D Example Archives: Humanoid Animation, Bones, All Bones LOA 5
>>>>> Skeletons
>>>>> -
>>>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Bones/AllBonesLOA5SkeletonsIndex.html
>>>>>
>>>>> see the EXPORT statements beginning at line 3286:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Bones/AllBonesLOA5Skeletons.html#3286
>>>>>
>>>>> 3286 <!-- right-side HAnimHumanoid -->
>>>>> 3287 <EXPORT localDEF='hanimMesh_AllBonesSkeleton'
>>>>> AS='AllBonesSkeletonMesh'/>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3288 <!-- left-side HAnimHumanoid -->
>>>>> 3289 <EXPORT localDEF='hanim_AllBonesSkeleton' AS='AllBonesSkeleton'/>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3290 <!-- propose eliminating requirement for EXPORT statements
>>>>> corresponding to child HAnimJoint HAnimSegment HAnimSite nodes, similar to
>>>>> removing requirement for definition of USE nodes for HAnimHumanoid children
>>>>> -->
>>>>>
>>>>> 3291 <EXPORT localDEF='hanim_c1' AS='AllBonesSkeletonMesh_hanim_c1'/>
>>>>> 3292 <EXPORT localDEF='hanim_c1disc'
>>>>> AS='AllBonesSkeletonMesh_hanim_c1disc'/>
>>>>> 3293 <EXPORT localDEF='hanim_c2' AS='AllBonesSkeletonMesh_hanim_c2'/>
>>>>> 3294 <EXPORT localDEF='hanim_c2disc'
>>>>> AS='AllBonesSkeletonMesh_hanim_c2disc'/>
>>>>> (etc. etc. approximately 400 EXPORT statements follow which exactly
>>>>> match the skeleton example)
>>>>> Tags HAnim v2.1, ,X3D v4.1
>>>>> Attach Tags (Separate by ",") Existing tags1356apacheCD Ballot
>>>>> commentDocument styleExamplesfileHTML5JSONMantisMetaverseSAISchema
>>>>> securityserverspamuploadV3.3 CommentV4.0V4.0 ResolutionValidation
>>>>> WebsiteWebXRX3DUOM
>>>>> Activities
>>>>> <https://mantis.web3d.org/view.php?id=1530#>
>>>>>
>>>>> brutzman <https://mantis.web3d.org/view_user_page.php?id=10>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2026-04-23 10:55
>>>>>
>>>>> administrator ~0003889
>>>>> <https://mantis.web3d.org/view.php?id=1530#c3889>
>>>>> This issue is similar to the USE nodes in HAnimHumanoid - duplication
>>>>> by authors is tedious, error prone, and a superfluous task that a browser
>>>>> can s
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> Have fun with HAnim and X3D! 😁
>>>>>
>>>>> all the best, Don
>>>>> --
>>>>> X3D Graphics, Maritime Robotics, Distributed Simulation
>>>>> Relative Motion Consulting https://RelativeMotion.info
>>>>>
>>>>
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