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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">[This is only a response to quoting
issues. I think I have included just the appropriate responses]<br>
<br>
<br>
My question related to my proposal. I was not proposing anything
for V3.x. I have no interest in modifying V3.x
documents/standards.<br>
<br>
My proposal was to completely resolve the problem of quoting by
eliminating it by putting elements of an array into child tags.
There is also the possibility for putting a single string
(SFString) into a child tag.<br>
<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c64d46ef-6469-2cc1-4c70-6d6112bdd7b1@nps.edu">On
5/16/2017 8:18 PM, Leonard Daly wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">At some point in the discussion of singles
& doubles, I ask as to the applicability of these
discussions to the current V3.x standard or a future V4.x
standard. It was answered that the discussion was for V3.x.
<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
[Here is a long-form explanation of the point which hopefully is
considered useful.]
<br>
<br>
The representation of SFString and MFString attribute values in
the X3D version 3.3 XML encoding also has direct bearing on how
SFString and MFString attribute values can be applied in X3D v4.
<br>
<br>
X3D version 3.3 XML encoding is found at
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/X3D_XML.html">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/X3D_XML.html</a>
<br>
<br>
It seemed like we had excellent conceptual resolution of several
tricky issues last week. Dialog is certainly helpful. It will be
good to see last week's careful refinements consistently
elaborated in Mantis, in specification prose and in validation
diagnostic tests.
<br>
<br>
This improved clarity on inclusion of X3D SFString/MFString
content within a single-quoted or double-quoted attribute value is
helpful for all X3D v3 versions as well as X3D v4. No problems
expected with backward compatibility of existing content. No
problems foreseen with prospective HTML5 representations of such
attribute values in either an HTML (loose) or XHTML (strict)
encodings.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Attendees: Roy Walmsley, Leonard Daly,
Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Don Brutzman, Dick Puk,
Michalis Kamburelis,
<br>
<br>
Apologies received:
<br>
<br>
=======================================================================================================
<br>
<br>
Preliminary: *_Welcome, and introductions, as necessary_*
<br>
<br>
Roy welcomed everyone. No introductions were needed.
<br>
<br>
=======================================================================================================
<br>
<br>
Primary discussion topic: *_SFString and MFString in the XML
encoding – which quotation marks should be accepted?_*
<br>
<br>
Ancillary topic: *_MFxxxx fields – use of commas as value
separators_*
<br>
<br>
*__*
<br>
<br>
·Introduction: Review of current and reference standards, led
by the meeting chair
<br>
<br>
oISO/IEC 19775-1:2013 clause 5.3.14 SFString and SFString
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/fieldsDef.html#SFStringAndMFString">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/fieldsDef.html#SFStringAndMFString</a>)<br>
<br>
oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#Description">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#Description</a>)<br>
<br>
oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString</a>)<br>
<br>
oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause A.4 Fields
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/grammar.html#Fields">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/grammar.html#Fields</a>)<br>
<br>
oIntroducing JSON (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.json.org/">http://www.json.org/</a>)
<br>
<br>
oISO/IEC 19776-1:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#5.1.2">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#5.1.2</a>)<br>
<br>
oISO/IEC 19776-1:2016 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString</a>)<br>
<br>
oHTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 8.1.2.3
Attributes
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes</a>)
<br>
<br>
oHTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 9.1
Writing XHTML documents
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/xhtml.html#writing-xhtml-documents">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/xhtml.html#writing-xhtml-documents</a>)
<br>
<br>
oExtensible Markup Language (XML) 1.1 W3C Recommendation 4
February 2004, clause 2.3 Common Syntactic Constructs [10]
AttValue
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#NT-AttValue">https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#NT-AttValue</a>)
<br>
<br>
Roy opened the discussion with a short review of each of the
above references. The reference from ISO/IEC 19775-1 did not
have specific impact on the discussions. The next three
references from ISO/IEC 19776-2, the Classic VRML encoding,
define a string to be have double quotation marks (“), and
MFStrings to be an array of strings enclosed in square
brackets as array delimiters. Furthermore, an MFString with a
single element does not require the square brackets. This
principle, of not requiring square brackets for a single
value, applies to all MFxxxx fields. The next two references,
from ISO/IEC 19776-1, the XML encoding, define a string to
have double quotation marks(“) and MFStrings to be an array of
strings in single quotes (‘). The remaining three HTML and XML
references define attribute values to be enclosed in either
double quotes(“) or single quotes(‘).
<br>
<br>
Don highlighted the existing Mantis issue on this topic that
collects some comments. This is issue 1091 -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091</a> –
entitled “Confusion between XML and X3D syntax for SFString”.
The related Mantis issues 705 -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705</a> –
entitled “Escaping backslashes” and 488 -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488</a> –
entitled “Handling of quotation marks” were also noted.
<br>
<br>
Need to be careful with specifying what we mean by “double
quotes” and “single quotes” or “apostrophes”. See
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn">https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn</a> and
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref">https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref</a> for XML standard.
Michalis provided references to clarify this – see
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006674.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006674.html</a>.
<br>
<br>
The question was also raised about whether the requirement in
the XML encoding for an MFString with a single value to be
encoded using two sets of quotation marks could be relaxed, in
effect dropping the outer set of quotes, just as the Classic
VRML encoding drops the array square brackets.
<br>
<br>
The need for backslash escaping was described. They are needed
in the XML encoding because there is both an XML parser and an
X3D parser. The question of whether there should be a
difference between SFString and MFString escaping requirements
was raised. Michalis reported that some implementations do not
recognize escape sequences in SFString values – see
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006690.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006690.html</a>.
<br>
<br>
Michalis noted that the X3D XML encoding is specific about
what quotation marks to use, compared to XML. He suggested X3D
should permit either sets of quotes, to match the XML / HTML
standards. There was general agreement that the specific X3D
requirements should be relaxed to match the XML specification
for string attributes.
<br>
<br>
It was agreed that escape sequences are indeed required for
MFStrings, but are not be required for SFStrings.
<br>
<br>
It was proposed that alternative text for clause 5.15 in
ISO/IEC 19776-1 should be written. During the discussion,
there was a large number of e-mail exchanges on the public
list, all stemming from the meeting agenda at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006643.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006643.html</a>.
At the end of the meeting discussions Don and Michalis agreed
to put forward new text for consideration.
<br>
<br>
=======================================================================================================
<br>
<br>
Close of Meeting: *_Thanks for participating and
contributing_*
<br>
<br>
*__*
<br>
<br>
Roy thanked everyone for their time to participate and the
passionate contributions to the debate.
<br>
<br>
*__*
<br>
<br>
Roy Walmsley
<br>
<br>
X3D WG co-chair
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
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<br>
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<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
*Leonard Daly*
<br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
<br>
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
x3d-public mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
all the best, Don
<br>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
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