<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: helvetica; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; float: none; display: inline;">> It has been noted that DiamondManLOA2 has 65 feature points. Why are there not all 120? All the feature points are not listed in the DiamondManLOA2 may be because that the skin used may not have that feature. Limited facial features, etc. </span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: helvetica; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; float: none; display: inline;">Well, the last time we updated Annex A I went to asleep or something and so Annex A dimensions for added joints and added feature points and the user code never really got updated to latest. The Annex A should be updated to include all sites and the joint tables updated to include all appropriate joints. The loa0, 1, 2, and 3 user code for skeletons are good with joints but missing sites, the loa4 skeleton user code is incomplete for new joints added in V2 and also short on sites. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: helvetica; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; float: none; display: inline;">None of the Annex A examples currently use a skin. Since (recommended) feature points are same for any loa, the same skin could work for all. </span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: helvetica; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; float: none; display: inline;">Thanks for All,</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: helvetica; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; float: none; display: inline;">Joe</span></p>
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<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Carol McDonald <cemd2@comcast.net><br>Sent: Mar 19, 2024 2:32 PM<br>To: John Carlson <yottzumm@gmail.com>, Joe D Williams <joedwil@earthlink.net>, Katy Schildmeyer KS APPAREL DESIGN <katy@ksappareldesign.com><br>Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public@web3d.org><br>Subject: Re: HAnim Features Points, 1-120 for your review</p>
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<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Okay, reviewing further - the actual linkage of the feature point is under the translation for the feature point is under the joint and segment, just like the skin. The actual translation is the x,y,z coordinate either on a mesh face on the skin or a vertex. So if you want the "translation" for the new feature points - my question remains - are the translations based on the humanoid animation of "Joe" or hopefully not "Box Man"? What is the skin that was used for the translations? What is the native file? Can that be saved to an OBJ so that I can get it into Rhino? </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">It has been noted that DiamondManLOA2 has 65 feature points. Why are there not all 120? All the feature points are not listed in the DiamondManLOA2 may be because that the skin used may not have that feature. Limited facial features, etc. </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Looking under DiamondManLOA2, the translation are located under that joint. </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"> <HAnimJoint DEF='hanim_sacroiliac' center='0.0 0.9149 0.0016' name='sacroiliac'><br><HAnimSegment DEF='hanim_pelvis' name='pelvis'><br><Transform DEF='sacroiliacPos' translation='0.0 0.9149 0.0016'></span></div>
<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"> <HAnimSite DEF='hanim_r_iliocristale_pt' name='r_iliocristale_pt' translation='-0.1525 1.0628 0.0035'></span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Thanks </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Carol </span></div>
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<div>On 03/16/2024 8:57 AM PDT Carol McDonald <cemd2@comcast.net> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Here is the attachment on the first 11 feature points. The site for the translations do not have points numbered so I added in that column. As you can see from this attachment - the feature points are independent of the joints as it does not matter which LOA that you choose. </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">But questions - during the animation - do the feature points move? How are they bound to the mesh and skin? If the skin (mesh) breaks during a movement - what happens to the feature point? </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Thanks </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Carol </span></div>
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<div>On 03/16/2024 7:08 AM PDT Carol McDonald <cemd2@comcast.net> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">I have been looking into this. And I am agreeing with John's assessment. I will somehow need to get everything into Rhino for visualization and coding. </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">From John on March 14th. </span></div>
<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">I am thinking that humanoid_root and all other joint centers are relative to the LCS (local coordinate system) of the humanoid, which is 0, 0, 0 relative to any transforms outside the humanoid.<br></span>
<div>That's my best guess right now.</div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">What is not noted on the General is the exact file or model for which these translations were built for. This means that the list of the translations on the website only valid for the humanoid model that they were obtained for, the distance of that model from the origin and are not appropriate for Gramps or any other model. </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">This means that for every joint center and every translation, it would be good to have reason for why is it located where it is. </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#General">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#General</a></span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA2DefaultSiteTranslations">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA2DefaultSiteTranslations</a></span></div>
<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA3DefaultSiteTranslations">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA3DefaultSiteTranslations</a></span></div>
<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA4DefaultSiteTranslations">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA4DefaultSiteTranslations</a></span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Is this the model for which the translations are built for? Can someone send me the proper link? Is this it? I will see if I can import it into Rhino 8. </span></div>
<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d </span></div>
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<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">Back to updating every 120 points currently listed as to recommendations of how to locate it and adding the additional feature points that I have requested. </div>
<div class="default-style" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/FeaturePoints.html#FeaturePointsOnTheHumanBody">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/FeaturePoints.html#FeaturePointsOnTheHumanBody</a></div>
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<div>Carol </div>
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<div>On 03/16/2024 4:23 AM PDT John Carlson <yottzumm@gmail.com> wrote:</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:38 AM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">> You can make the skin opaque to see that I'm really grabbing this from a HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d example, just my own incantation of scripts to draw the humanoid geometry. I'll be checking those in soon</p>
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<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Great John,</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">I will check this out soon. </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Any ideas for the 'virtual' feature points? </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">All Fine, </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Joe</p>
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<div>Joe, do you mean user drawn, not in current standard? User defined points? I have scripts for sites to place coordinates, but I don't have a way to get them into the hierarchy yet, so...</div>
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<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Mar 15, 2024 12:11 AM<br>To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>, Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">cemd2@comcast.net</a>>, Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: HAnim Features Points, 1-120 for your review</p>
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<div dir="ltr">Carol, I'm discovering it makes a difference where you put the Transform in the HAnimSegment as to whether to reuse the center. I don't have something that doesn't put out warnings yet, or takes the Sites away from the Joints. Hmm!
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<div>My best Humanoid so far is Humanoid4J.x3d.</div>
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<div>I'm going to get some sleep.</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 12:53 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Good use of Billboard for annotated feature points
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<div>Please consider this a contribution to the Web3DConsortium examples. I release my copyright and licensing privileges, and give them copyright and licensing under the normal X3D resources example.</div>
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<div>Thanks to Joe and Don for good examples to draw from!</div>
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<div>No, I don't have any metadata yet. Let's set up a time and figure out who all contributed.</div>
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<div>You can make the skin opaque to see that I'm really grabbing this from a HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d example, just my own incantation of scripts to draw the humanoid geometry. I'll be checking those in soon.</div>
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<div>John</div>
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