<div dir="auto"><div>Yes, that is an option. However, the question is if it should be changed so it is available for other purposes.<div dir="auto"><br></div>Andreas<br><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 9, 2025, 1:40 PM Holger Seelig <<a href="mailto:holger.seelig@yahoo.de">holger.seelig@yahoo.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="line-break:after-white-space">X_ITE applies the HAnimDisplacers in the shader, thus no coord.point field has to be changed.<div>Maybe that helps.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Holger</div><div><br><div><div>
<div dir="auto" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir="auto" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir="auto" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir="auto" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir="auto" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;line-break:after-white-space"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">--</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Holger Seelig</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Leipzig, Germany</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><a href="mailto:holger.seelig@yahoo.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">holger.seelig@yahoo.de</a></div><div><a href="https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Am 09.02.2025 um 19:33 schrieb Andreas Plesch via x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>:</div><br><div><div dir="auto">That would be the point field of a Coordinate node<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/rendering.html#Coordinate" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/rendering.html#Coordinate</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">which is used by the coord field of</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimSegment" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimSegment</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Andreas</div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 9, 2025, 12:36 PM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1">> coord node emit a point_changed event </div><p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p><div style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1">sorry,I don't see a field anywhere with that event. Displacer is likely to change several points when new weight is sent. All part of the cascade to produce the changed mesh?</div><div style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1">Thanks,</div><div style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1">Joe</div><p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p><p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
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<div style="border-left:1px solid #aaa;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0 10px 15px;margin:0"><p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Feb 9, 2025 4:25 AM<br>To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br>Cc: Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>, Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">cemd2@comcast.net</a>>, Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>, John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] HAnimDisplacer effect on coord.point</p><p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
<div dir="auto">Don, Joe and John
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks for collecting these references.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">But I am not sure if there is an answer to my original question. Let me rephrase a bit the question:</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">After a Displacer contained in a Segment node receives a set_weight input, should then the coord node emit a point_changed event ?</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">I do not think HAnim is concerned about that, so it is really a X3D question.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks, Andreas </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 9, 2025, 12:49 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Thanks for pointing in the right direction John.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Direct links to functional requirements for Displacer in HAnim 2.0 specification:</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div>HAnim 2.0. Part 1: Humanoid animation (HAnim) architecture, Clause 4 Concepts, 4.7 Displacer object</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#DisplacerObject" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#DisplacerObject</a></div>
<div> </div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div>HAnim 2.0. Part 1: Humanoid animation (HAnim) architecture, Clause 6 Object interfaces, 6.6 Displacer</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Displacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Displacer</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">and</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div>X3D 4.0 Architecture, Clause 26 Humanoid Animation (HAnim) component, 26.3.1 HAnimDisplacer</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">and informative</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div>X3D Tooltips, HAnimDisplacer</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimDisplacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimDisplacer</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Thanks for implementation efforts and careful scrutiny.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Questions and potential issues/clarifications/corrections are always welcome.</div>
<div style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt"> </div>
<div style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt"> </div>
<div style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt">all the best, Don</div>
<div id="m_-3249451473484689604m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384Signature"><div style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">--</span></div><div style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span></div><div style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span></div><div style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a href="https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span></div><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt"> </span></p>
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<div id="m_-3249451473484689604m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><strong>From:</strong> x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>> on behalf of John Carlson via x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Saturday, February 8, 2025 3:43 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>; Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">cemd2@comcast.net</a>>; Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>><br><strong>Cc:</strong> John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>; Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [x3d-public] HAnimDisplacer effect on coord.point</span>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Here’s what HAnim spec says under Displacer: </div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a id="m_-3249451473484689604m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWA61427f53-f118-5bac-b102-08e400d8fb7d" href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/index.html" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/index.html</a></div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:26px">“For the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Displacer</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> objects that are contained in the <em>displacers</em> field of the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> objects, the <em>displacements</em> are defined and applied in the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> coordinate system. The base mesh for the morphed </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> is the original mesh defined in the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px">.”</span></div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px">And here’s what it says under Segment:</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px">“</div><p style="direction:ltr;text-indent:0px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px">The <em>coord</em> field is used for <span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span> objects that have deformable meshes and shall contain coordinates referenced from the indexed mesh for the <span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span> object. The coordinates are given the same name as the <span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span> object, but with a <span style="font-family:monospace;font-size:20px"> <code>"_coords"</code></span> appended (e.g.,<span style="font-family:monospace;font-size:20px"><code>"skull_coords"</code></span>).”</p>
<div style="direction:ltr">displacements are an offset from the mesh, with weight from 0 to 1. So weight times displacement is total offset from base mesh. 0 weight = no offset, 1 weight = full displacements offset</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">The Coordinate point is maintained to handle weight = 0. Weight ranges from 0 to 1, but double check.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Joe or Carol might know where to find it in the HAnim spec.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">I believe the answer is, “during rendering,”. Since weight can vary with animation, and so can displacements, AFAIK. More than one displacer can be applied to the mesh.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">I have not read the spec.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">John</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 5:13 AM Andreas Plesch via x3d-public <<a id="m_-3249451473484689604m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWAb86c4cd8-27f2-681e-bb7e-2732c863133b" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid #cccccc">
<div style="direction:ltr"><a id="m_-3249451473484689604m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWA748f8f86-5a13-fcc4-378f-0e062af92d90" href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer</a></div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">does not directly explain what the effect of the displacer on the coord.point field of the containing HAnimSegment is. But it mentions the coord.point field and seems to imply that the coord.point field is involved.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">So the question is if the Displacer should alter the coord.point field in order to achieve a graphical displacement, or if the Browser should only apply the displacements during rendering without a change in the coord.point field ?</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">This is relevant if the coord.point field is accessed by routes or scripts, in addition to displacers.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Thanks for any feedback or ideas,</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Andreas</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">--</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Andreas Plesch<br>Waltham, MA 02453</div>
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_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>