<div dir="auto">Clarification, I actually meant the Segment coord field. I’m not sure if Site has something similar.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">John</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 12:23 PM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">> <span style="color:#000000;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline">Perhaps we should just make the coord field optional with Segment and Site displacers? </span> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">please, no. If no coordIndex field,then no Displacer should be there. </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">There are no defaults in a Displacer, there are only the same number of index and weight and displacements entries otherwise it shold not do anything. </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">In your examples, any that are empty should be removed. Although I guess there is the case where these are filled by some input in runtime. </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">Thanks,</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">Joe</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
</div>
<div style="border-left:1px solid #aaa;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0 10px 15px;margin:0">
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Feb 9, 2025 2:35 PM<br>To: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>, Brutzman Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>, Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>, Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" target="_blank">cemd2@comcast.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] HAnimDisplacer effect on coord.point</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Having a coord field is wise as it makes it unambiguous how displacers are applied.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">The ManyClocks.x3d example has a lot of HAnimSegment nodes which are empty, only have default values, and seem useless.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">In particular a NULL coord field invites problems.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Probably such a node should be just ignored but it would be good to have more specific spec. guidance, eg. allowing undefined browser behavior similar to many other nodes. </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">There is also a weird Segment node (hanim___4) which does not have geometry and a NULL coord field, but has a displacer. The displacer is even the target of a route. It would be good if such self in-consistent content would be allowed to lead to undefined browser behavior as well.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Andreas</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 9, 2025, 2:34 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Perhaps we should just make the coord field optional with Segment and Site displacers? If not specified, look in HAnimHumanoid.skinCoord, or make the search for coords hierarchical. As Joe says, a cascade.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Wondering,</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">John</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 12:33 PM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">That would be the point field of a Coordinate node
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/rendering.html#Coordinate" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/rendering.html#Coordinate</a></div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">which is used by the coord field of</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimSegment" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimSegment</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Andreas</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 9, 2025, 12:36 PM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="color:#000000;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">> coord node emit a point_changed event </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">sorry,I don't see a field anywhere with that event. Displacer is likely to change several points when new weight is sent. All part of the cascade to produce the changed mesh?</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">Thanks,</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0">Joe</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
</div>
<div style="border-left:1px solid #aaa;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0 10px 15px;margin:0">
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Feb 9, 2025 4:25 AM<br>To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br>Cc: Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>, Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">cemd2@comcast.net</a>>, Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>, John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] HAnimDisplacer effect on coord.point</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0;line-height:1.0"> </p>
<div dir="auto">Don, Joe and John
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks for collecting these references.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">But I am not sure if there is an answer to my original question. Let me rephrase a bit the question:</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">After a Displacer contained in a Segment node receives a set_weight input, should then the coord node emit a point_changed event ?</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">I do not think HAnim is concerned about that, so it is really a X3D question.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks, Andreas </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Feb 9, 2025, 12:49 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">Thanks for pointing in the right direction John.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000"> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">Direct links to functional requirements for Displacer in HAnim 2.0 specification:</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div>HAnim 2.0. Part 1: Humanoid animation (HAnim) architecture, Clause 4 Concepts, 4.7 Displacer object</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#DisplacerObject" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#DisplacerObject</a></div>
<div> </div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div>HAnim 2.0. Part 1: Humanoid animation (HAnim) architecture, Clause 6 Object interfaces, 6.6 Displacer</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Displacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Displacer</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">and</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div>X3D 4.0 Architecture, Clause 26 Humanoid Animation (HAnim) component, 26.3.1 HAnimDisplacer</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">and informative</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div>X3D Tooltips, HAnimDisplacer</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">
<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimDisplacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimDisplacer</a></div>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">Thanks for implementation efforts and careful scrutiny.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000"> </div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000">Questions and potential issues/clarifications/corrections are always welcome.</div>
<div style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt;color:#000000"> </div>
<div style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt;color:#000000"> </div>
<div style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt;color:#000000">all the best, Don</div>
<div id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384Signature">
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">--</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a href="https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:9pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000"> </div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:#000000"><strong>From:</strong> x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>> on behalf of John Carlson via x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Saturday, February 8, 2025 3:43 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>; Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">cemd2@comcast.net</a>>; Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>><br><strong>Cc:</strong> John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>; Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [x3d-public] HAnimDisplacer effect on coord.point</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Here’s what HAnim spec says under Displacer: </div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWA61427f53-f118-5bac-b102-08e400d8fb7d" href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/index.html" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/index.html</a></div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#000000"><span style="font-size:26px">“For the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Displacer</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> objects that are contained in the <em>displacers</em> field of the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> objects, the <em>displacements</em> are defined and applied in the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> coordinate system. The base mesh for the morphed </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px"> is the original mesh defined in the </span><span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span><span style="font-size:26px">.”</span></div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px;color:#000000"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px;color:#000000">And here’s what it says under Segment:</div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px;color:#000000"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px;color:#000000">“</div>
<p style="direction:ltr;text-indent:0px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:26px;color:#000000">The <em>coord</em> field is used for <span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span> objects that have deformable meshes and shall contain coordinates referenced from the indexed mesh for the <span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span> object. The coordinates are given the same name as the <span style="font-size:24px"><strong>Segment</strong></span> object, but with a <span style="font-family:monospace;font-size:20px"> <code>"_coords"</code></span> appended (e.g.,<span style="font-family:monospace;font-size:20px"><code>"skull_coords"</code></span>).”</p>
<div style="direction:ltr">displacements are an offset from the mesh, with weight from 0 to 1. So weight times displacement is total offset from base mesh. 0 weight = no offset, 1 weight = full displacements offset</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">The Coordinate point is maintained to handle weight = 0. Weight ranges from 0 to 1, but double check.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Joe or Carol might know where to find it in the HAnim spec.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">I believe the answer is, “during rendering,”. Since weight can vary with animation, and so can displacements, AFAIK. More than one displacer can be applied to the mesh.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">I have not read the spec.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">John</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 5:13 AM Andreas Plesch via x3d-public <<a id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWAb86c4cd8-27f2-681e-bb7e-2732c863133b" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid #cccccc">
<div style="direction:ltr"><a id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWA748f8f86-5a13-fcc4-378f-0e062af92d90" href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimDisplacer</a></div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">does not directly explain what the effect of the displacer on the coord.point field of the containing HAnimSegment is. But it mentions the coord.point field and seems to imply that the coord.point field is involved.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">So the question is if the Displacer should alter the coord.point field in order to achieve a graphical displacement, or if the Browser should only apply the displacements during rendering without a change in the coord.point field ?</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">This is relevant if the coord.point field is accessed by routes or scripts, in addition to displacers.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Thanks for any feedback or ideas,</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"> </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Andreas</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Andreas Plesch<br>Waltham, MA 02453</div>
_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWAdb1a012a-dd2e-6378-f309-7baffb783773" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a id="m_8749475772592026650m_-2291100281099274902m_-7579377085581105635m_6319021292282811150m_-5864293673180594623m_3240166723513497384OWAf436619e-d094-4516-0cbc-f504294e755b" href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></blockquote>
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