[Korea-chapter] [X3D] Agenda items for today's Korea chapter meeting

Don Brutzman brutzman at nps.edu
Wed Sep 30 19:47:59 PDT 2009

Myeong Won Lee wrote:
> Dear Don and Dick,
> The following are the agenda items for today's Korea chapter meeting, 
> Sep. 30 (Wed) 5:10pm (PST)/
> Oct. 1 (Thu) 9:10am (Korea). Please provide updates if any amendments or 
> additions are noted.

Thanks for the agenda.

Attendees:  Myeong Won Lee, Gun Lee, Leonard Daly, Don Brutzman.

We had a teleconference from 1715-1945 pacific (2.5 hours).

> 1. I ask for your understanding as I once again bring up the 
> standardization procedure
>     concerning the proposals submitted to the ISO SC24 WG6.
>     I am not referring to the previously submitted NP documents that 
> include units specification and
>     projective texture mapping. We think it is too late for those since 
> they have already been submitted to the ISO.
>     However, we hope that future proposals could be processed to be 
> recognized by ISO national bodies.
>     We would like to anticipate further defining the standardization 
> procedure for proposals
>     when submitted by ISO national bodies. The Web3D Consortium 
> procedure mentioned by Don
>     at the chapter meeting minutes is as follows:
>  >- Web3D member submissions to X3D working group
>  >- Web3D Consortium submission of New Work Item Proposals (NP 
> documents) to ISO
>  >- Web3D status reports, issued every two weeks as working group 
> minutes or upon request
>  >- Web3D draft specification submissions to ISO, which occur as 
> committee drafts, final committee drafts, FDIS, etc.
>  >- ISO ballots of Web3D submissions
>  >- ISO ballot results regarding Web3D submissions
> In the case of the first proposal submission to the ISO SC24 WG6 by 
> national body delegates,
> we would like to suggest that, in addition to the above-mentioned 
> procedures, the following procedures also be considered:
> 1) It is preferred that the NP documents be submitted by ISO national 
> bodies.
> 2) If item (1) is not allowed, then the NP documents should at least 
> mention that the proposals have been submitted by ISO national bodies.
> 3) Other standardization documents such as WD, CD, FDIS, etc. should 
> mention that the proposals
>     were initially submitted by ISO national bodies, and then co-worked.
> If not, all delegates sent by national bodies might be discouraged from 
> submitting their proposals
> because their achievements won't be recognized by the national bodies.
> ISO national bodies and their participants usually consider only formal 
> ISO documents.
> Although it may take time to reach an agreement amongst all concerned,
> we anticipate that this issue can be resolved.

We appreciate your concerns regarding these issues.  We are surprised and
sorry to hear that this is still a concern for your national body members.

Creation of the Web3D Korea Chapter was in large part intended to ensure
that Korean participants had a clear and well-supported path to propose,
pursue, demonstrate and achieve the specification of new capabilities
in X3D.

We have repeatedly tried to explain Web3D Consortium procedures and the
Web3D-ISO formal relationship, which has been successfully executed
for about 12 years and 1-3 versions each of 12 specification documents.
We have not received any other requests to change our policy or shared
ISO procedures during that time.

Web3D Consortium does not comment on ISO or national body procedures.
The Korean national body is welcome to work as it sees fit.  As you
know, the Web3D Consortium does follow our liaison agreement with ISO
scrupulously.  As you know this process follows a detailed annual cycle,
so change can be slow.

Regarding your three proposed steps above:
1) Web3D Consortium has no comment on whether national bodies submit
NP documents.  We have clear agreement however that work on X3D
specification development and changes can only be performed and
submitted by Web3D Consortium.  Therefore any other NP submissions
to ISO by other bodies is informational only, and not binding on
Web3D Consortium.  This has been agreed to by ISO SC24 many times.

For 2) and 3) We are always happy to give credit to contributors.  However
Web3D Consortium is not willing to make ISO approval a prerequisite to
our work.  Rather ISO gets approval of results.  So any proposal in an
external NP submission will need to be separately submitted by a Web3D

If you wish to formally propose a procedural change to Web3D Consortium,
you have the right to do so.  However such a change will also have to
be approved by ISO SC24 and then ISO itself.  I have not heard any
proposed change that would gain the support of the Web3D Board of

It would also seem that every proposal submitted by Korean partners is
being fairly considered.  Our process does appear to work satisfactorily.
So I am still not sure what problem you want us to solve.

I recommend that you tell your concerned partners the following:
- Web3D Consortium is not likely to support any formal changes to
	our proven successful liaison process with ISO.
- The Web3D Korea Chapter and direct Web3D membership are the only
	ways to initiate formal work.  This is critical and not
	negotiable due to Web3D intellectual property rights (IPR)
- Please let us know if there is a single case of technology that
	is unable to follow this procedure.
- Continued debate regarding procedure is taking a heavy cost on
	our ability to work on the proposals that have already been

Thank you for your professionalism in this matter, I hope that this
response is helpful.  Let us please move on to actual productive work.
Very respectfully submitted.

> 2. Web3D Seoul meeting schedule for December
>     Dec. 7 (Mon) AM: Web3D Korea Chapter Meeting - Proposals discussion 
> (Seoul Palace Hotel)
>                          PM: Web3D Korea Chapter Meeting - Proposals 
> discussion (Seoul Palace Hotel)
>     Dec. 8 (Tue) AM: Discussion Web3D Working Groups (Seoul Palace Hotel)
>                          PM: Seminar hosted by Prof. Jounghyun Gerard 
> Kim (Korea Univ., Seoul)
>     Dec. 9 (Wed) AM: Move to Daejon  (Daejon)           (Yousung Hotel, 
> Daejon)

Hopefully an early departure departure Wednesday to maximize working time
at KAIST in Daejon.

>                          PM: KAIST hosted by Prof. Soonhung Han (Daejon)
>     Dec.10 (Thu) AM: KAIST (Daejon)
>                          PM: KAIST or other organization (?)  (Yousung 
> Hotel, Daejon)

Hopefully I will visit ETRI in Daejeon on Thursday afternoon.

After that I will move to Chinhae on Thursday night.

>     Dec. 11 (Fri)  other organization (?)

Korea Naval Academy in Chinhae

>     Dec. 12 (Sat) to Seoul                                            
> (Seoul Palace Hotel)
>     Dec. 13 (Sun) from Seoul to Singapore

These dates and locations look very good, thanks.

> 3. Units specification
>    - The unit browser will be updated with the "units statements" 
> definition for units.
>    - My comments were submitted to the X3D WG, and discussed at last 
> week's X3D WG meeting.

Wiki page:

Meeting minutes available via web email archive:

I will add these to the version-control X3D Basic examples under a new directory
called Units.  These will appear at


Next steps on examples:
- Myeong Won will get a sourceforge.net account
- Don will insert meta tags for document information, and add the examples
	to the regular distribution
- Later we will work on a v3.3 X3D schema addition

> 4. Projective texture mapping (Kwan Hee Yoo, Chungbuk National U.) 
>     - Kwan Hee Yoo submitted a projective texture mapping draft to the 
> X3D WG in July
>     - There were no comments from the X3D WG
>     - What is the PTM progress?

Wiki page:

It is important to have dialog on the X3D mailing list and during the
working group meetings.  We will try to cover this at the meeting
next week, hopefully someone from Korea can attend.

Gun Lee also asked about tracking devices.  Not sure, recommend that you:
- check out past Web3D Symposium proceedings
- ask on x3d-public and and ui (user interface) mailing lists
- UI working group cochairs are Nick Polys <npolys at vt.edu> and
	Pablo Figueroa <pfiguero at uniandes.edu.co>

> 5. Mixed reality visualization item progress (Gun Lee, ETRI)
>  - Prototype implementation code base decision
>  - Multiple tracking objects issue => Are there any tracking devices 
> support/nodes in the Web3D standard?

Wiki page will have more detail added:

I have attached a copy of Gun Lee's Mixed Reality proposal, which will also be
added to the document directory.

He is looking for a C or C++ open-source codebase to implement his
work.  I recommended consider FreeWrl since it is well supported,
well documents, and maintained by a Web3D member organization that
is diligent about conformance.


> 6. Web3D.org Wiki 
>  - Problem with uploading pdf (and zip) files

We worked on this problem during the call; .pdf and .x3d upload is now
permitted, though powerpoint is not (Len requests that you please convert
those files to PDF).

The document directory is now linked on the Web3D Korea wiki for convenience.

Leonard is working on increasing the allowed file size.

7.  Our plan for next meeting:
October 14 (Wed) 5:10pm (PST)/
October 15 (Thu) 9:10am (Korea).

Comments on these minutes are welcome, thanks for all dialog.

all the best, Don
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br           brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270   MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA  work +1.831.656.2149
X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF  http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman
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