[Korea-chapter] [h-anim] composable behaviors, animations, sequencers

[Joe D Williams]

> However, it is not easy and very complex to apply those 
> interpolators to other character models, including ours.

If the HAnimJoint DEF names are the same, it should be simple to use 
the current example animations to control your characters.

> We are testing if the 10 characters can be animated using the same
> interpolators as used for Allen and Nancy.

Using the animations in the latest Spec 'motion' version would be 
best.

> > However, X3D-Edit does not display the characters correctly (it 
> > displays
> just a black scene).

If Don can't see the file and troubleshoot, he can't fix X3D Edit.

I suggest sending me a file for one of the characters so I can take a 
look and perhaps help identify details needed to reuse the example 
animations with your characters. Please send me .x3d file to read.  I 
will report back as soon as I can.

Thanks Again for your important work.
Best Regards,
Joe


.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Myeong Won Lee" <myeongwonlee at gmail.com>
To: "Joe D Williams" <joedwil at earthlink.net>
Cc: "Don Brutzman" <brutzman at nps.edu>; "Myeong Won Lee" 
<mwlee at suwon.ac.kr>; "Human Animation working group" 
<h-anim at web3d.org>; <korea-chapter at web3d.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Korea-chapter] [h-anim] composable behaviors, 
animations, sequencers


> Dear Joe,
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
> Our 10 example X3D H-Anim characters were first designed with 3ds 
> MAX then
> converted from WRL files to X3D files. Our method for their design 
> can be
> applied using many other tools in the same manner, as long as those 
> tools
> support WRL files. Our viewer includes the conversion function, 
> wrl-to-x3d
> (hanim).
>
> The X3D files are readable text files.
> X3D validation for all the X3D files was completed a while ago, as I
> presented them at previous Korea chapter meetings, as well as at 
> SC24
> meetings.
>
> The 10 characters can also be displayed in the BS Contact viewer.
> However, X3D-Edit does not display the characters correctly (it 
> displays
> just a black scene).
> We are testing if the 10 characters can be animated using the same
> interpolators as used for Allen and Nancy.
> However, it is not easy and very complex to apply those 
> interpolators to
> other character models, including ours.
> This is our dilemma, but we must  figure out how to apply the 
> interpolators
> of one character to other characters.
>
> I am looking over the work that you and Don have done recently by 
> going
> through the emails.
> Thank you for sending all the information.
> I will ask questions later if there are problems to discuss.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Myeong
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Joe D Williams 
> <joedwil at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Myeong,
>>
>>
>>  I will bring our 10 example H-Anim characters designed by 3ds Max 
>> to the
>>> Siggraph H-Anim meeting.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for this. I think it does not matter which tool the 
>> author uses
>> in design and animation, it is the actual human readable X3D HAnim 
>> user
>> code that represents each character that is of primary importance.
>>
>> At any point in the process, I think it should be possible to 
>> produce a
>> text file showing what is happening inside, in the actual user code 
>> that
>> defines and animates the character.
>> I haven't discussed this detail specifically in the working group 
>> but, for
>> example, that is why we are not moving forward now with the 
>> existing
>> 'diverse models' HAnim change.
>> We only had one X3D player that demonstrated the very important 
>> concept
>> and no running prototypes. Some interest, but perhaps more interest 
>> in just
>> sticking to the simplist way of just drawing everything directly in
>> skeleton space instead of providing a systematic way to adjust 
>> things into
>> skeleton space.
>>
>> Historically, this is similar to the step between hanim level1 
>> where
>> geometry is part of a segment and the level2 deformable skin where 
>> the
>> 'skin' is part of the humanoid with movement controlled by joint 
>> bindings.
>> This step was practically impossible to prototype (see boxman 
>> script and
>> bsC protos). It took an interval to get this best practice, along 
>> with the
>> best practice displacer methods, of skin animation running in more 
>> than one
>> browser. Yet today deformable skin is supported widely.
>>
>>
>>  because we realized some problems in wrl files.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe we can help. I can't think of a better forum to deal with 
>> wrl, x3d
>> or general humanoid animation probems than our consortuium so 
>> please bring
>> these problems forward.
>>
>>
>>  All the characters can be animated using BVH motion capture files 
>> in our
>>> motion viewer.
>>>
>>
>> Of course the goal is that we can define a system that can be used 
>> in
>> every X3D tool. I think understanding of bvh format and best 
>> practice
>> conversion to native X3D data types is important because it 
>> provides an
>> interface with consumer devices that are being widely used. We 
>> recieved
>> this link from an early contributor to h-anim
>> http://cg.cis.upenn.edu/hms/**research/ADAPT/<http://cg.cis.upenn.edu/hms/research/ADAPT/>
>> as another example. I hope you can meet with Norm at the show.
>>
>> To me it is most important that there is not a rush to define a 
>> standard
>> but we search for the true best practices by testing several 
>> working
>> solutions.
>>
>>
>>  All the animaiton sequences can be stored as an animation file
>>>
>>
>> That goes right along with existing X3D HAnim practice. Either 
>> generate
>> the data using scripts or interpolators and/or import data as a 
>> string or a
>> file.
>>
>> I think another very important part of the motion proposal is the 
>> detail
>> that the proposal introduces a change from 'realtime' to a fixed or
>> variable author specified frames per second mode (fps).
>> I think this is a way to synchronize the X3D player to some sort of
>> capture or rendering device that works at fixed or known frame 
>> intervals,
>> such as 'video' capture/playback.
>> As usual, with X3D there are several ways to get this done and 
>> please keep
>> in mind that we must search for a general solution to this method 
>> of
>> animation capture/playback in X3D.
>>
>> I am also hoping you can briefly overview some of the current work 
>> of
>> evaluation and validation of the existing HAnim model by showing 
>> the three
>> specification examples we have been working on.
>>
>> Have fun in California.
>> Thank You and Best Regards,
>> Joe
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myeong Won Lee" <
>> myeongwonlee at gmail.com>
>> To: "Don Brutzman" <brutzman at nps.edu>
>> Cc: "Joe D Williams" <joedwil at earthlink.net>; "Myeong Won Lee" <
>> mwlee at suwon.ac.kr>; "Human Animation working group" 
>> <h-anim at web3d.org>; <
>> korea-chapter at web3d.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Korea-chapter] [h-anim] composable behaviors, 
>> animations,
>> sequencers
>>
>>
>>  Dear Don,
>>>
>>> I will bring our 10 example H-Anim characters designed by 3ds Max 
>>> to the
>>> Siggraph H-Anim meeting.
>>> We are testing them again if their formats are valid although they
>>> are similar as I presented several times, because we realized some
>>> problems
>>> in wrl files.
>>> All the characters can be animated using BVH motion capture files 
>>> in our
>>> motion viewer.
>>> All the animaiton sequences can be stored as an animation file
>>> (temporarily, "hanim" file extension is used).
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Myeong
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Joe, thanks for your note, makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> Based on last night's work, am also thinking that there are a few 
>>>> broad
>>>> categories of animation:
>>>> - composable behaviors that animate the body itself (Walk, 
>>>> WaveLeftHand,
>>>> etc.) i.e. your demonstrated set of blendable behaviors
>>>> - animations that move the body from place to place
>>>> (WalkDownTwelfthStreet, WalkInCircle, TangoMotionCapture)
>>>> - sequencers (WalkDownTwelfthStreet, TurnAround, Wait 10s, 
>>>> SitDown at bus
>>>> stop, Wait for bus, StandUp)
>>>>
>>>> Any other categories or use cases?
>>>>
>>>> Myeong Won Lee, the most helpful things we might get from you 
>>>> (and
>>>> others)
>>>> would be example X3D scenes from your work that we might test and 
>>>> try
>>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> all the best, Don
>>>> --
>>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA 
>>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics 
>>>> http://faculty.nps.edu/**
>>>> brutzman 
>>>> <http://faculty.nps.edu/**brutzman<http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>> Korea-chapter mailing list
>>>> Korea-chapter at web3d.org
>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/****listinfo/korea-chapter_web3d.****org<http://web3d.org/mailman/**listinfo/korea-chapter_web3d.**org>
>>>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/**listinfo/korea-chapter_web3d.**org<http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/korea-chapter_web3d.org>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Myeong Won Lee
>>> College of IT, U. of Suwon
>>> Hwasung-si, Gyeonggi-do, 445-743 Korea
>>> Tel) +82-31-220-2313, +82-10-8904-4634
>>> E-mail) mwlee at suwon.ac.kr
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Myeong Won Lee
> College of IT, U. of Suwon
> Hwasung-si, Gyeonggi-do, 445-743 Korea
> Tel) +82-31-220-2313, +82-10-8904-4634
> E-mail) mwlee at suwon.ac.kr
>