[X3D-Public] XMPP / XML schema JScript ( Networksensor )
Christoph Valentin
christoph.valentin at gmx.at
Tue Nov 20 07:15:21 PST 2012
Hi Sven-Erik
When I asked you about the network architecture you're aiming at, I did not
mean the protocol.
Protocols come and go (with a few exceptions).
No, I meant the following topic: You want to connect three kinds of
entities:
1) Web3D Scenes
2) MathWorks Simulink
3) The Reality
I do not know much about MathWorks Simulink, but if it's a simulator I
guess
it's purpose is to solve integral equations in real time. Hence it would be
our "server".
On the other hand, if you connect to reality, then reality would solve the
integral equations (by the laws of physics). Hence reality would be our
"server".
The Web3D Scenes would typically be our "clients".
ejabberd would also be a server, but on a lower layer.
Question: Do you aim to support (2) and (3) in parallel or just
alternatively.
The answer to this question could fairly influence the architecture.
Just two cent, of course.
Kind regards
Christoph
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 08:59:54 +0000
> Von: Sven-Erik Tiberg <Sven-Erik.Tiberg at ltu.se>
> An: "'Christoph Valentin'" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> CC: "x3d-public at web3d.org" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Betreff: RE: {Disarmed} Re: [X3D-Public] XMPP / XML schema JScript (
> Networksensor )
>
>
> Hi Christoph
>
> You are correct in:
>
> “ You think about "multi X3D nodes and non X3D nodes
> like
> CarSim interfacing Mathworks Simulink.""" “”
>
> This is exactly what I would like to accomplish.
>
> The protocol to be used should preferable
> have a open specification, well supported and documented and preferable a
> protocol that are under constant development and extending functionality.
> It would be preferable if it has a wide range of libs in multiple
> programming language.
>
> Would also like to have secure transport and the possibility to
> send packages to symbolic address handled by a protocol broker instead of
> a IP address. The protocol broker should also have the feature to
> transferee a message package from one node to a symbolic group address
> that distributes the message package to all nodes that are listed as
> participants in this symbolic group address.
>
> It should also be possible to connect several protocol brokers
> in a network and in this it’s preferable to use a s2s tunneled
> connection to have a well defined specification for any firewalls on that
> route.
>
> A the moment XMPP with ejabberd fulfills
> most of this requirements but as you know things can change in this world
> of SW and HW.
>
> To be prepared for a most probably evolution
> in protocol without having to rewrite as little as possible of the SW
> I’m aiming to use the syntax for NetWorkSensorNode and JScript in
> this case strophe.js as it are both event driven and are using BOSH (
> Bidirectional Over Secure Html to overcome network port restrictions for
> JScript in browsers), and ejabberd can handle BOSH. There are a c++
> version of strophe as well and python libs for jabber/XMP, event
> handling and secure transport and,,
>
> By this it’s fairly easy to swap to another protocol in
> the future, it can be used in most browser / X3D clients ( python version
> for H3D ) and X3D scenes / spaces can be put together from code snipps
> from a CMServer.
>
> By using symbolic addresses and symbolic
> group addresses, the HW for a node can be moved in the network or
> replaced w/o rewriting the X3D scene code.
>
> Well hope I haven’t confused you to
> much now as all this ideas are in a “evolution state” on my
> desk and some of it are documented in the suggested conference paper that
> I sent you some time ago.
>
> Will have a look at your work ( ref. by links below ) now.
>
>
> Thank you once again Christoph you work/project inspires me,
> and this summer I WILL stop in Wienna for a chat.
>
> Will be on MC tour to a small town north of Udine in Italy and
> Wienna are on the way down from Scandinavia.
>
> /Sven-Erik
>
> From: Christoph Valentin
> [mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]
> Sent: den 19 november 2012 23:59
> To: Sven-Erik Tiberg
> Cc: x3d-public at web3d.org
> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [X3D-Public] XMPP / XML schema JScript (
> Networksensor )
>
> Hi
> Sven-Erik
>
> Maybe EUR 0.02 from my side:
>
> You think about "multi X3D nodes and non X3D nodes like
> CarSim interfacing Mathworks Simulink."""
>
> And you think about using an open protocol like one from the IETF.
>
> I'm not sure about the network architecture you are aiming at (would be
> in-
> teresting to know), but regarding the network interface within the Web3D
> scene,
> I guess you would like to use something "Network Sensor" like (something
> that
> provides event distribution from one scene instance to all instances,
> shared
> states that are stored on the server and can be modified/influenced by
> any
> scene instance) and something for chat and avatars.
>
> If this is true, maybe you can take advantage of the results of my
> experimental(!) open source project http://simulrr.sourceforge.net .
> That open source project (currently pre-alpha and currently stopped)
> provides some X3D prototypes that examplify a network interface
> that is more specific than the Network Sensor and hence more easy-to-use
> yet experimental and of course it *uses* the Network Sensor. I do not
> only use
> server side calculations provided by the network sensor natively, but
> additionally I use what I call CBSS (Client Based Server Software) and an
> arbitration mechanism that selects one scene instance to execute the
> CBSS.
>
> Hence you can implement your own "server" software without changing the
> server.
>
> I do not mean you can use those X3D prototypes unchanged (although it
> could
> be an interesting challenge to join or fork the sourceforge project and
> implement XMPP support), but maybe you find some ideas about the
> interfaces
> of those X3D Prototypes that are helpful for your students.
>
> The X3D prototypes and the Concepts' Descriptions are licensed by an LGPL
> so you can do derivative work without bad conscience.
>
> Description:
> http://members.chello.at/christoph.valentin/concepts/000_Synopsis.pdf
>
> I have stopped that project for personal reasons, so you need not worry
> about
> a huge amount of updates :-)
>
> Kind regards
> Christoph
>
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:16:15 +0000
> Von: Sven-Erik Tiberg <Sven-Erik.Tiberg at ltu.se>
> An: "pyth7 at verizon.net" <pyth7 at verizon.net>, "christoph.valentin at gmx.at"
> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> CC: "x3d-public at web3d.org" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Betreff: RE: Re: [X3D-Public] XMPP / XML schema JScript ( Networksensor )
>
>
> Hi pyth7
>
> Mybee you are right on it's a "Walking dead"
> But way alternative can you come up with on a open source network
> protocol suited multi X3D nodes and non X3D nodes like CarSim interfacing
> Mathworks Simulink.
> Togther forming a driver simulator.
> I'm just go 2 groups of students readdy to make this happend.
> Can be a option to in RT transfere positions, rotation,,,, and live video
> to handle a model car.
> An area of applications for this projeare are supporting car testing
> under arctic conditions.
>
> So please tell me any optional protocol to use before we put more effort
> into usiing RT-XMPP for X3D space and Matworks / Simulink MU system.
>
> /Sven-Erik Tiberg
>
>
> From: MailScanner has detected a
> possible fraud attempt from "service.gmx.net" claiming to be
> pyth7 at verizon.net [MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
> "service.gmx.net" claiming to be pyth7 at verizon.net]
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:28 PM
> To: christoph.valentin at gmx.at; Sven-Erik Tiberg
> Cc: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
> "service.gmx.net" claiming to be x3d-public at web3d.org
> Subject: Re: Re: [X3D-Public] XMPP / XML schema JScript ( Networksensor )
>
>
>
> Is
> this the plot for an upcoming episode of the "Walking Dead"?
>
>
>
>
> On 10/26/12, Christoph Valentin<christoph.valentin at gmx.at> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Sven-Erik
>
> So, when it's about the Network Sensor, we had a discussion about
> evolution of the Network Sensor concept.
>
> This was during January through March 2011, in the thread "The Network
> Sensor is not enough".
>
> Original e-mail was this:
> http://www.web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2011-January/001401.html
>
> All the best
> Christoph
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Gesendet: Thursday, 25 October 2012 um 16:28:08 Uhr
> Von: "Don Brutzman" <brutzman at nps.edu>
> An: "Sven-Erik Tiberg" <Sven-Erik.Tiberg at ltu.se>
> Betreff: Re: [X3D-Public] XMPP / XML schema JScript ( Networksensor )
> On 10/22/2012 10:16 AM, Sven-Erik Tiberg wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Some time ago it was a tread regarding interfacing jscript to x3d
> scenes with suggestions for Node name suggestions for routing.
> >
> > Seems to remember that there are a suggestion for a group working with
> making a Networksensor similar interface for JScript / Python.
> >
> > Any tips on these items?
>
> Hi Sven-Erik
>
> High-water mark for the NetworkSensor node effort is maintained in the
> X3D Basic Examples under Networking.
>
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/Networking
>
> This directory documents attempts to define and build a new NetworkSensor
> node for X3D. Although useful design progress was made by the X3D working
> group, this work did not reach closure because author-written
> implementations did not appear to be possible using X3D prototypes.
> Further implementation and evaluation work might someday be pursued using
> an X3D browser implementation.
>
>
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/Networking/NetworkSensorConnectionNodes.html
> (attached)
>
> Examples of additional networking techniques for X3D can also be added to
> this archive. Of related interest: the Distributed Interactive Simulation
> (DIS) examples in this archive, which include native X3D support for the
> IEEE Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) networking-protocol
> standard.
>
>
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/DistributedInteractiveSimulation
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Interactive_Simulation
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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