[x3d-public] Minutes of X3D WG Open Meeting; X3D v4 XML syntax can match HTML5 design and DOM
Leonard.Daly at realism.com
Wed May 17 08:03:27 PDT 2017
[This is only a response to quoting issues. I think I have included just
the appropriate responses]
My question related to my proposal. I was not proposing anything for
V3.x. I have no interest in modifying V3.x documents/standards.
My proposal was to completely resolve the problem of quoting by
eliminating it by putting elements of an array into child tags. There is
also the possibility for putting a single string (SFString) into a child
> On 5/16/2017 8:18 PM, Leonard Daly wrote:
>> At some point in the discussion of singles & doubles, I ask as to the
>> applicability of these discussions to the current V3.x standard or a
>> future V4.x standard. It was answered that the discussion was for V3.x.
>> Leonard Daly
> [Here is a long-form explanation of the point which hopefully is
> considered useful.]
> The representation of SFString and MFString attribute values in the
> X3D version 3.3 XML encoding also has direct bearing on how SFString
> and MFString attribute values can be applied in X3D v4.
> X3D version 3.3 XML encoding is found at
> It seemed like we had excellent conceptual resolution of several
> tricky issues last week. Dialog is certainly helpful. It will be
> good to see last week's careful refinements consistently elaborated in
> Mantis, in specification prose and in validation diagnostic tests.
> This improved clarity on inclusion of X3D SFString/MFString content
> within a single-quoted or double-quoted attribute value is helpful for
> all X3D v3 versions as well as X3D v4. No problems expected with
> backward compatibility of existing content. No problems foreseen with
> prospective HTML5 representations of such attribute values in either
> an HTML (loose) or XHTML (strict) encodings.
>>> Attendees: Roy Walmsley, Leonard Daly, Anita Havele, Vince
>>> Marchetti, Don Brutzman, Dick Puk, Michalis Kamburelis,
>>> Apologies received:
>>> Preliminary: *_Welcome, and introductions, as necessary_*
>>> Roy welcomed everyone. No introductions were needed.
>>> Primary discussion topic: *_SFString and MFString in the XML
>>> encoding – which quotation marks should be accepted?_*
>>> Ancillary topic: *_MFxxxx fields – use of commas as value separators_*
>>> ·Introduction: Review of current and reference standards, led by the
>>> meeting chair
>>> oISO/IEC 19775-1:2013 clause 5.3.14 SFString and SFString
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause A.4 Fields
>>> oIntroducing JSON (http://www.json.org/)
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-1:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-1:2016 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString
>>> oHTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 220.127.116.11
>>> Attributes (https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes)
>>> oHTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 9.1 Writing
>>> XHTML documents
>>> oExtensible Markup Language (XML) 1.1 W3C Recommendation 4 February
>>> 2004, clause 2.3 Common Syntactic Constructs  AttValue
>>> Roy opened the discussion with a short review of each of the above
>>> references. The reference from ISO/IEC 19775-1 did not have specific
>>> impact on the discussions. The next three references from ISO/IEC
>>> 19776-2, the Classic VRML encoding, define a string to be have
>>> double quotation marks (“), and MFStrings to be an array of strings
>>> enclosed in square brackets as array delimiters. Furthermore, an
>>> MFString with a single element does not require the square brackets.
>>> This principle, of not requiring square brackets for a single value,
>>> applies to all MFxxxx fields. The next two references, from ISO/IEC
>>> 19776-1, the XML encoding, define a string to have double quotation
>>> marks(“) and MFStrings to be an array of strings in single quotes
>>> (‘). The remaining three HTML and XML references define attribute
>>> values to be enclosed in either double quotes(“) or single quotes(‘).
>>> Don highlighted the existing Mantis issue on this topic that
>>> collects some comments. This is issue 1091 -
>>> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091 – entitled
>>> “Confusion between XML and X3D syntax for SFString”. The related
>>> Mantis issues 705 -
>>> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705 – entitled
>>> “Escaping backslashes” and 488 -
>>> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488 – entitled
>>> “Handling of quotation marks” were also noted.
>>> Need to be careful with specifying what we mean by “double quotes”
>>> and “single quotes” or “apostrophes”. See
>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn and
>>> https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref for XML standard.
>>> Michalis provided references to clarify this – see
>>> The question was also raised about whether the requirement in the
>>> XML encoding for an MFString with a single value to be encoded using
>>> two sets of quotation marks could be relaxed, in effect dropping the
>>> outer set of quotes, just as the Classic VRML encoding drops the
>>> array square brackets.
>>> The need for backslash escaping was described. They are needed in
>>> the XML encoding because there is both an XML parser and an X3D
>>> parser. The question of whether there should be a difference between
>>> SFString and MFString escaping requirements was raised. Michalis
>>> reported that some implementations do not recognize escape sequences
>>> in SFString values – see
>>> Michalis noted that the X3D XML encoding is specific about what
>>> quotation marks to use, compared to XML. He suggested X3D should
>>> permit either sets of quotes, to match the XML / HTML standards.
>>> There was general agreement that the specific X3D requirements
>>> should be relaxed to match the XML specification for string attributes.
>>> It was agreed that escape sequences are indeed required for
>>> MFStrings, but are not be required for SFStrings.
>>> It was proposed that alternative text for clause 5.15 in ISO/IEC
>>> 19776-1 should be written. During the discussion, there was a large
>>> number of e-mail exchanges on the public list, all stemming from the
>>> meeting agenda at
>>> At the end of the meeting discussions Don and Michalis agreed to put
>>> forward new text for consideration.
>>> Close of Meeting: *_Thanks for participating and contributing_*
>>> Roy thanked everyone for their time to participate and the
>>> passionate contributions to the debate.
>>> Roy Walmsley
>>> X3D WG co-chair
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> *Leonard Daly*
>> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
>> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
>> President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
> all the best, Don
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
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