[x3d-public] Minutes of X3D WG Open Meeting; X3D v4 XML syntax can match HTML5 design and DOM

Wed May 17 08:03:27 PDT 2017

[This is only a response to quoting issues. I think I have included just 
the appropriate responses]

My question related to my proposal. I was not proposing anything for 
V3.x. I have no interest in modifying V3.x documents/standards.

My proposal was to completely resolve the problem of quoting by 
eliminating it by putting elements of an array into child tags. There is 
also the possibility for putting a single string (SFString) into a child 
tag.

Leonard Daly

> On 5/16/2017 8:18 PM, Leonard Daly wrote:
>> At some point in the discussion of singles & doubles, I ask as to the 
>> applicability of these discussions to the current V3.x standard or a 
>> future V4.x standard. It was answered that the discussion was for V3.x.
>>
>> Leonard Daly
>
> [Here is a long-form explanation of the point which hopefully is 
> considered useful.]
>
> The representation of SFString and MFString attribute values in the 
> X3D version 3.3 XML encoding also has direct bearing on how SFString 
> and MFString attribute values can be applied in X3D v4.
>
> X3D version 3.3 XML encoding is found at
>
>     http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/X3D_XML.html 
>
>
> It seemed like we had excellent conceptual resolution of several 
> tricky issues last week.  Dialog is certainly helpful.  It will be 
> good to see last week's careful refinements consistently elaborated in 
> Mantis, in specification prose and in validation diagnostic tests.
>
> This improved clarity on inclusion of X3D SFString/MFString content 
> within a single-quoted or double-quoted attribute value is helpful for 
> all X3D v3 versions as well as X3D v4.  No problems expected with 
> backward compatibility of existing content.  No problems foreseen with 
> prospective HTML5 representations of such attribute values in either 
> an HTML (loose) or XHTML (strict) encodings.
>
>
>>> Attendees:  Roy Walmsley, Leonard Daly, Anita Havele, Vince 
>>> Marchetti, Don Brutzman, Dick Puk, Michalis Kamburelis,
>>>
>>> Apologies received:
>>>
>>> ======================================================================================================= 
>>>
>>>
>>> Preliminary: *_Welcome, and introductions, as necessary_*
>>>
>>> Roy welcomed everyone. No introductions were needed.
>>>
>>> ======================================================================================================= 
>>>
>>>
>>> Primary discussion topic: *_SFString and MFString in the XML 
>>> encoding – which quotation marks should be accepted?_*
>>>
>>> Ancillary topic: *_MFxxxx fields – use of commas as value separators_*
>>>
>>> *__*
>>>
>>> ·Introduction: Review of current and reference standards, led by the 
>>> meeting chair
>>>
>>> oISO/IEC 19775-1:2013 clause 5.3.14 SFString and SFString 
>>> (http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/fieldsDef.html#SFStringAndMFString)
>>>
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description 
>>> (http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#Description)
>>>
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString 
>>> (http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString)
>>>
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause A.4 Fields 
>>> (http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/grammar.html#Fields)
>>>
>>> oIntroducing JSON (http://www.json.org/)
>>>
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-1:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description 
>>> (http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#5.1.2)
>>>
>>> oISO/IEC 19776-1:2016 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString 
>>> (http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString)
>>>
>>> oHTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 8.1.2.3 
>>> Attributes (https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes)
>>>
>>> oHTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 9.1 Writing 
>>> XHTML documents 
>>> (https://www.w3.org/TR/html/xhtml.html#writing-xhtml-documents)
>>>
>>> oExtensible Markup Language (XML) 1.1 W3C Recommendation 4 February 
>>> 2004, clause 2.3 Common Syntactic Constructs [10] AttValue 
>>> (https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#NT-AttValue)
>>>
>>> Roy opened the discussion with a short review of each of the above 
>>> references. The reference from ISO/IEC 19775-1 did not have specific 
>>> impact on the discussions. The next three references from ISO/IEC 
>>> 19776-2, the Classic VRML encoding, define a string to be have 
>>> double quotation marks (“), and MFStrings to be an array of strings 
>>> enclosed in square brackets as array delimiters. Furthermore, an 
>>> MFString with a single element does not require the square brackets. 
>>> This principle, of not requiring square brackets for a single value, 
>>> applies to all MFxxxx fields. The next two references, from ISO/IEC 
>>> 19776-1, the XML encoding, define a string to have double quotation 
>>> marks(“) and MFStrings to be an array of strings in single quotes 
>>> (‘). The remaining three HTML and XML references define attribute 
>>> values to be enclosed in either double quotes(“) or single quotes(‘).
>>>
>>> Don highlighted the existing Mantis issue on this topic that 
>>> collects some comments. This is issue 1091 - 
>>> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091 – entitled 
>>> “Confusion between XML and X3D syntax for SFString”. The related 
>>> Mantis issues 705 - 
>>> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705 – entitled 
>>> “Escaping backslashes” and 488 - 
>>> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488 – entitled 
>>> “Handling of quotation marks” were also noted.
>>>
>>> Need to be careful with specifying what we mean by “double quotes” 
>>> and “single quotes” or “apostrophes”. See 
>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn and 
>>> https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref for XML standard. 
>>> Michalis provided references to clarify this – see 
>>> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006674.html.
>>>
>>> The question was also raised about whether the requirement in the 
>>> XML encoding for an MFString with a single value to be encoded using 
>>> two sets of quotation marks could be relaxed, in effect dropping the 
>>> outer set of quotes, just as the Classic VRML encoding drops the 
>>> array square brackets.
>>>
>>> The need for backslash escaping was described. They are needed in 
>>> the XML encoding because there is both an XML parser and an X3D 
>>> parser. The question of whether there should be a difference between 
>>> SFString and MFString escaping requirements was raised. Michalis 
>>> reported that some implementations do not recognize escape sequences 
>>> in SFString values – see 
>>> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006690.html.
>>>
>>> Michalis noted that the X3D XML encoding is specific about what 
>>> quotation marks to use, compared to XML. He suggested X3D should 
>>> permit either sets of quotes, to match the XML / HTML standards. 
>>> There was general agreement that the specific X3D requirements 
>>> should be relaxed to match the XML specification for string attributes.
>>>
>>> It was agreed that escape sequences are indeed required for 
>>> MFStrings, but are not be required for SFStrings.
>>>
>>> It was proposed that alternative text for clause 5.15 in ISO/IEC 
>>> 19776-1 should be written. During the discussion, there was a large 
>>> number of e-mail exchanges on the public list, all stemming from the 
>>> meeting agenda at 
>>> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006643.html. 
>>> At the end of the meeting discussions Don and Michalis agreed to put 
>>> forward new text for consideration.
>>>
>>> ======================================================================================================= 
>>>
>>>
>>> Close of Meeting: *_Thanks for participating and contributing_*
>>>
>>> *__*
>>>
>>> Roy thanked everyone for their time to participate and the 
>>> passionate contributions to the debate.
>>>
>>> *__*
>>>
>>> Roy Walmsley
>>>
>>> X3D WG co-chair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> *Leonard Daly*
>> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
>> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
>> President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
>>
>>
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>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
>
> all the best, Don

-- 
*Leonard Daly*
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
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