[x3d-public] Removal of Layout component in X3D v4
yottzumm at gmail.com
Tue Oct 8 13:24:49 PDT 2019
I think the main reason X3D has not taken off is IMHO there’s no “network effect.” That is, none of my friend and relatives even consider VRML or X3D. How many people here have the same absence in their lives?
Can we even consider a networking component that doesn’t have HTTPS? What if the protocol is language independent?
LIRCOM to the rescue! I’ll have to boot up my laptop to find it.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: John Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 2:52 PM
To: GPU Group; X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: RE: [x3d-public] Removal of Layout component in X3D v4
I think a networking component is good, if only for chat or sharing position information in a shared virtual world. I agree that a second application can be used for communication. Position information is more world related, and I think should be integrated with x3d, just as avatars are.
Secondly, I imagine myself using my voice or body movement to create virtual worlds, in an accessible sense.
Holger, don’t forget html5 as an option for x3d v4.
We should also consider the potentially ad hoc nature of a networked virtual world, or serendipity. There at a minimum should be a way of communicating either email address or skype id, in world.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: GPU Group
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 1:38 PM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Removal of Layout component in X3D v4
Holger, Michalis et al,
I third both motions.
1) Layout/Layer - I remember thinking there was something a bit strange and fuzzy-thought maybe Scene:Layer and Layout:Layer would make some sense as long as you can route or hyper-route between them, in other words instead of Layer as a node type buried in a scene, it could be a hyperscene of some sort.
So maybe some refactoring. But seemed handy - I like it.
2) DIS - I implemented just so I could cross the FULL finish line for bragging rights, but no one has asked for it, and I keep it disabled in the browser unless specifically turned on by commandline option by user. It doesn't fit well with what we are doing -some military-specific nodes- but other multi-player designs might be interesting perhaps at a hyper-scene level rather than buried in scene nodes.
Doug Sanden, FreeWRL
On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:06 AM Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com> wrote:
>From the point of view of Castle Game Engine / view3dscene, I can
support both Holger's suggestions :)
1. While we don't implement Layout component *yet* in CGE, it does
seem useful and users are actually asking me to implement it. So
(speaking for users) deprecating Layout does not seem desired.
(The reason why it's not implemented *yet* in CGE is that it
wasn't desperately needed, because in CGE we have a similar feature
covering similar use-case. CGE developer can use several
TCastleSceneManager or TCastleUserInterface Pascal components rendered
on top of each other. This covers similar use-cases as the X3D Layout
component. Although it is not available to X3D author (using only
view3dscene), it's only available to CGE developer designing the UI
using CGE components in Pascal.)
2. I don't think we will ever implement, or need, DIS in
CGE/view3dscene. DIS seems tailored to a specific use-case/application
of a military simulation.
While some terms of DIS (like "ammunition" or "detonations")
occur also in computer games, they would definitely not be expressed
by DIS nodes (because each game has very different needs here) by CGE
users. Thus, we have no chance of ever achieving "Full" profile
compatibility for X3D within CGE -- as "Full" includes DIS.
If DIS is indeed useful to particular military organizations,
perhaps the DIS component could be moved to a separate specification,
and not be part of the "Full" profile? And if it's not used, the
simply deprecating it seems like a reasonable choice. I'm not aware of
any other 3D model format that contains this feature, at least in
wt., 8 paź 2019 o 09:46 Holger Seelig <holger.seelig at googlemail.com> napisał(a):
> I don't see why the Layout component should be removed in the new X3D v4
> standard. It is fully implemented in X_ITE and Titania, and Titania has
> a nice Layout Editor, which makes the use of this component very easy.
> With the Layout component it is possible to place something in a corner
> or edge of the screen, or make something as large as the screen.
> Removing this component will removing these possibilities.
> I think a better candidate of removing a component is the DIS component.
> It is a component for purely military use, which I think has nothing to
> do with X3D standard. The only purpose of this component is to play war
> like in Counter-Strike, and to model war simulations for the army, which
> is not my intention.
> Best regards,
> Holger Seelig
> Digital Media Designer
> Scheffelstraße 31a
> 04277 Leipzig
> Cellular: +49 176 420 479 37
> E-Mail: holger.seelig at create3000.de
> Web: http://create3000.de
> x3d-public mailing list
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