[x3d-public] X3D minutes 11 OCT 2019: Web3DUX, semantics progress, implementations status, mantis issues, texture/material, X3D-Edit

Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) brutzman at nps.edu
Fri Oct 11 11:00:18 PDT 2019

Meeting attendees: Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti (briefly), Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.

These minutes were reviewed to contain no member-only information.


The X3D Graphics Working Group addresses all X3D specification issues and coordinates the technical development of future improvements.

Members and invited experts are welcome.  We are an open organization. Please let us know if you have an important topic to present or discuss.

Each week we report out both public and member-only information - membership has value.  To become a Web3D Consortium member:
	Join the Web3D Consortium

Teleconference information appears below.


1. Agenda check - looks good.

Recent minutes:

[1] [x3d-public] X3D minutes 4 OCT 2019: X3D-glTF review, defer Annotations, Layout component, #X3Dv4 implementations/issues update


2. *Proposed Web3D User Experience (Web3DUX) Working Group*

Meetings have started, each Monday 09-1000 immediately following X3D Semantic Web Working Group.  Led by Dr. Feng Liu of Mercer University, we are working on charter and scope.

[2] [x3d-public] 3 OCT 2019 - Web3dUX Working Group (proposed) meeting minutes

This activity is building upon many great discussions at the Web3D 2019 Conference in LA this past summer.

Nicholas is contributing a list of topics for that group to look at.  There are many.. We'll try not to expose too many "moat monsters" in the deep end of the pool!

This effort will use the x3d-public mailing list while in formative stages.  Onward we go.


3. *X3D Semantic Web Working Group*

Much progress.  Paper accepted to Semantic Web Pro, additional papers planned.

[3] [x3d-public] Minutes X3D Semantic Web 7 OCT 2019: X3D Ontology improvements review, X3dToTurtle.xslt plans

Key page reflecting steady progress:

	X3D Ontology for Semantic Web

Further activity this week:

a. /New mailing list/. semantics-public at web3D has been established.  We'll be moving most working-group traffic to that list.  If you'd like to listen or join:

	Semantics-public -- X3D Semantics public discussion


b. X3dToTurtle.xslt unit testing on X3D Examples Archives now instrumented for full unit testing of 3000+ scenes.  (Full uploads in morning.)  Available at

	Hello World .ttl Turtle source (experimental) with SPARQL query

Example screenshot and alternate pattern-match success follows:



c. /Reflection/.  Discussions on this challenging topic began a year ago, and the X3D Semantic Web Working Group began at the beginning of the year.  Really impressive progress - we are now evaluating the power and expressiveness of X3D model queries.  Use cases and feedback continue to be welcome.  More to follow!  8)


"The X3D Semantic Web Working Group mission is to publish models to the Web using X3D in order to best gain Web interoperability and enable intelligent 3D applications, feature-based 3D model querying, and reasoning over 3D scenes."

Motivating insights:

* "The answer to your question is the response to the query." Jim Hendler and Dean Allemang

* "Trying to use the Semantic Web without SPARQL is like trying to use a relational database without SQL." Tim Berners-Lee


4. *X3D Implementations*. Review and update page.

	X3Dv4 Implementations Status

Proposed changes for group discussion, review, improvement:

	[x3d-public] X3Dv4 page edits, status update

Comments welcome.  We will integrate these improvements.

Review of
	X3D Node and Statement Inventory Comparison

Discussion topic: is HTML5 support appropriate fit for X3Dv4 profile, or component?

5. *X3Dv4 Highlights*.

New draft page for discussion and improvement:

	X3Dv4 Highlights

We added a few categories and improved the descriptions.  Anita and Nicholas will continue this effort with Web3D Consortium members.

[This is still a draft for discussion, distillation, improvement. TODO once clear on topics, then we can tighten messaging to be very clear.  We will then point people to the other two X3Dv4 pages if they want to learn more.  We might first have top 5 or 10 as primary highlights, then a second section on other things too.  This page is now ready for member review and improvement, but not yet ready for publication outreach until smoothed.]


6. *Issues Inventory*.  Mantis review, have we tagged all relevant issues as #X3Dv4 ?

	Mantis Issue Tracker

This will be the focus of our next Specification Editors teleconference.  All inputs always welcome.

Of note is that we entered a new Mantis issue for Inline refresh field.  How does it look?  Thanks to Nicholas for resuscitating this long-ago suggestion.

	new field /refresh/ for Inline, ImageTexture etc.

> Description
> It can be very useful for authors to automatically refresh content. Suggested field addition for nodes like Inline, ImageTexture etc.
>     SFTime [in, out] refresh 0 [0,+infinity)
> Suggested prose: "The /refresh/ field defines the interval in seconds that are necessary before an automatic reload of the current /url/ asset is performed. If original loading fails or the /load/ field is FALSE, no refresh is performed. If performed, a refresh attempts to reload the currently loaded entry of the url list. If a refresh fails to reload the currently loaded url entry, the browser retries the other entries in the /url/ list."
> Additional Information
> An example use case is reloading weather content. Interestingly this can also lead to inversion of url order, a model might first try a url for a remote weather service before falling back on local data for a sunny day.
> The /refresh/ field does not apply to X3DUrlObject because it is not appropriate for some nodes (for example, Anchor is only activated by a user and not automatically).
> Of note is that an author can build similar functionality with TimeSensor, LoadSensor, Script and ROUTEs but such an event chain is fairly involved. Having a /refresh/ field will allow authors to easily create more dynamic Web content.
> Security precaution needs to be noted.

7. *Additional Progress*.

a. Good discussion on interplay between materials and textures is occurring on both the X3DOM and X_ITE mailing lists.  This is especially pertinent given the addition of Physically Based Rendering (PBR) capabilities.  Links:

* X3DOM conversation

* X_ITE conversation

* Michalis Kamburelis summary:
   Make RGB and grayscale textures treatment consistent

These are certain to be reconciled as part of the X3Dv4 improvements to rendering and lighting.  We are happy to discuss these topics in coming weeks on this teleconference call.


b. X3DOM and X_ITE have added some navigation types and other special features.  Some features will also be part of SAI, for example getting screen-space coordinates.  We need to expose these inside any X3D model so that authors work to best effect with HTML5.  These need to be considered and proposed publicly to get on the X3D Working Group agenda prior to 16 DEC 2019.

The community has to live with the results... the community should *Step Up to Help* !!  This is a real opportunity for authors and implementers to speak out, helping to elevate important new candidate capabilities.


c. After a long interval, X3D-Edit v3.3 preliminary tests are again satisfactorily on Netbeans 8.2 (with Java 1.8) and now Netbeans 11.1 (OpenJDK or Oracle JDK 13), both for standalone Java application and as a Netbeans plugin.  Further improvements are planned.

	X3D-Edit Authoring Tool for Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics


8. *Teleconference Information*

We have switched to Zoom channel, to good effect.  It allows use of internet audio, screen sharing and chat with links.

We meet regularly on Fridays 0800-0930 pacific.  To join the teleconference:
	Web3D Teleconference

* Friday          08-1000 pacific, Join URL https://zoom.us/j/148206572 for X3D Working Group

One tap mobile
* US (New York) +19292056099,,148206572 #
* US (San Jose) +16699006833,,148206572 #

Dial by your location, using (nine-digit number from Join URL above)

* US (New York) +1 929 205 6099
* US (San Jose) +1 669 900 6833


Lots of effort continues.  Only 8 weeks left until we close the X3Dv4 contributions window on 16 DEC 2019.

Please consider how you are helping... there are things TODO for everyone.

Have fun with X3D!   8)

all the best, Don
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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