[x3d-public] X3D Working Group Agenda 28 OCT 2019: consistent rendering, adding features and nodes from v3.3 players

Fri Oct 18 14:13:01 PDT 2019

Freewrl inventory of implemented navigation modes:
Walk
Fly > yaw-z, XY, yaw-pitch, roll
Explore
Spherical (pan-zoom)
Turntable
LookAt
ViewAll
Distance - (changes examine distance with a screen-vertical drag)
ShiftKey (turns off sensors for pure navigation, like keyboard shift key is
supposed to, except without keyboard)

Touch screen navigation specific:
Hover (up-drag for isOver when using touch screen)
Pedal (drags in-scene cursor separately so related to finger touch position
by an adjustable offset)
-Doug

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 1:35 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ok.
>
> Yes, turntable navigation mode is really useful. It is probably the
> most popular mode in x3dom. It could be specified as a special case of
> EXAMINE, with the additional restriction that the vertical axis must
> stay aligned with the local Y-axis. Helicopter mode is similar but
> with FLY controls.
>
> Out of the other listed nodes, EnvironmentLight is important and
> relatively easy to implement in the shader. The light color is
> determined from a skybox/environment, relative to the eye-to-fragment
> angle. x3dom has it for PBR purposes.
>
> x3dom has BackdropBackground as a special case of Background. It is a
> simple static image and can be quite useful:
> https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/issues/971 . If only the backUrl field
> is populated, it is used as a static backdrop.
>
> Plane is used but I forget why it is there over Rectangle2D. The extra
> geometry nodes are rarely used. Teapot can be useful for testing
> across browsers but that is probably not a good reason to expand the
> spec.
>
> -Andreas
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 1:36 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
> <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for feedback Andreas.
> >
> > On 10/18/2019 4:18 AM, Andreas Plesch wrote:
> > >> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 10:33:55 +0000
> > >> From: "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <brutzman at nps.edu>
> > >> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> > >> Cc: X3D Graphics Working Group <x3d at web3d.org>
> > >> Subject: [x3d-public] X3D Working Group Agenda 28 OCT 2019: X3Dv4
> issues review
> > >>
> > >> ==================================
> > >>[...]
> > >> 2. *Carryover issue: material, textures, lighting*
> > >>
> > >>> a. Good discussion on interplay between materials and textures is
> occurring on both the X3DOM and X_ITE mailing lists.  [...]
> > >>>
> > >>> * X3DOM conversation
> > >>>     https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/issues/993
> > >>>
> > >>> * X_ITE conversation
> > >>>     https://github.com/create3000/x_ite/issues/50
> > >>
> > >> Is this driving to closure satisfactorily? Are precise changes
> expected for X3Dv4?
> > >
> > > x3dom has been updated to be more spec. complaint and tries to detect
> > > if an image texture is greyscale from the image itself now.
> > >
> > > Michalis has good language for precise changes which would much
> > > simplify image texture and color mixing by always just multiplying.
> > > x3dom would likely support this change. Probably x-ite as well since
> > > it makes implementations and reasoning easier.
> > >
> > >> We must have consistent rendering well defined.
> > >
> > > Currently, it is not very well defined. The changes would make it more
> > > consistent with other graphics systems.
> >
> > Super.  Looking forward to compatible resolution between X3DOM, X_ITE,
> Castle Game Engine and then X3Dv4 PBR.
> >
> > You have our commitment to have the specification match consensus on
> repeatable authoring results for rendering.
> >
> > Hopefully other implementers are taking advantage of considering these
> discussion threads as well.
> >
> > >> ==================================
> > >>
> > >> 3. *Carryover issue: features and nodes*
> > >>
> > >>> b. X3DOM and X_ITE have added some navigation types and other
> special features.  Some features will also be part of SAI, for example
> getting screen-space coordinates.  We need to expose these inside any X3D
> model so that authors work to best effect with HTML5.  These need to be
> considered and proposed publicly to get on the X3D Working Group agenda
> prior to 16 DEC 2019.
> > >>>
> > >>> The community has to live with the results... the community should
> *Step Up to Help* !!  This is a real opportunity for authors and
> implementers to speak out, helping to elevate important new candidate
> capabilities.
> > >>
> > >> Nobody has stepped up yet.  Navigation types and other geometry nodes
> sure seem like low-hanging fruit.
> > >
> > > I gather this issue is mostly with respect to VR navigation ? I am not
> > > sure what this issue is about.
> >
> > Yes, X3DOM X_ITE and other browsers' documentation have noted some
> additional navigation types and additional geometry nodes.  For example:
> >
> >         https://www.x3dom.org/new-turntable-navigation-mode-in-x3dom
> >         https://www.x3dom.org/x3dom/example/x3dom_turntable.html
> > and
> >         X3DOM node index
> >         https://doc.x3dom.org/author/nodes.html
> >
> > includes Block, Dish, ImageGeometry, Mesh, Multipart, Nozzle, Plane,
> Pyramid, RectangularTorus, SlopedCylinder, Snout, SolidOfRevolution,
> SphereSegment, Torus, Viewfrustum.
> >
> >         X_ITE Supported Nodes
> >         http://create3000.de/x_ite/supported-nodes
> >
> > ... has BlendMode (not sure why).  Otherwise mostly appears to match the
> spec, but doubtless has some suggested changes or additions to X3D.
> >
> >         http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/x_ite/blendmode
> >
> > Instant Reality has numerous variants, not sure what might be
> repeatable/generalizable.  Perhaps PixelText, SolidText, SphereSegment,
> Torus, Plane, ImageGeometry, Teapot, SphericalHarmonics, Highlight,
> EnvironmentLight, BackdropBackground, GradientBackground, SolidBackground,
> PolygonBackground, SkydomeBackground, many others are also listed.
> >
> >         http://doc.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetypetree
> >
> > Am expecting Castle Game Engine and FreeWrl also have wish lists.
> >
> > Not looking for "node bloat" but many of these sound quite simple and
> might be good additions to X3Dvy author's palette of capabilities.
> >
> > Thanks everyone for considering the possibilities.  As before:
> >
> > >> Seems like a real opportunity for someone to unlock major latent
> improvements for future authors and users.
> > >>
> > >> Am willing to spend meeting time to review once a suggestion list has
> been posted publicly.
> > all the best, Don
> > --
> > Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> > Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>  +1.831.656.2149
> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Plesch
> Waltham, MA 02453
>
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