[x3d-public] X3D Working Group Agenda 28 OCT 2019: consistent rendering, adding features and nodes from v3.3 players

Fri Oct 18 14:34:19 PDT 2019

FreeWRL inventory of supra-v3.3-spec nodes:
(Castle) EffectPart
(Castle) Effect
GeoPlanet - when multiple planets, keeps geonodes organized
GeoConvert - converts various geographic to xyz and/or vice versa,
connecting/chaining/routing 2 allows converting from one geographic coord
system to another.
LineSensor - as discussed with Andreas
PointSensor - ditto
Teapot
-Doug

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 3:13 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:

> Freewrl inventory of implemented navigation modes:
> Walk
> Fly > yaw-z, XY, yaw-pitch, roll
> Explore
> Spherical (pan-zoom)
> Turntable
> LookAt
> ViewAll
> Distance - (changes examine distance with a screen-vertical drag)
> ShiftKey (turns off sensors for pure navigation, like keyboard shift key
> is supposed to, except without keyboard)
>
> Touch screen navigation specific:
> Hover (up-drag for isOver when using touch screen)
> Pedal (drags in-scene cursor separately so related to finger touch
> position by an adjustable offset)
> -Doug
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 1:35 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ok.
>>
>> Yes, turntable navigation mode is really useful. It is probably the
>> most popular mode in x3dom. It could be specified as a special case of
>> EXAMINE, with the additional restriction that the vertical axis must
>> stay aligned with the local Y-axis. Helicopter mode is similar but
>> with FLY controls.
>>
>> Out of the other listed nodes, EnvironmentLight is important and
>> relatively easy to implement in the shader. The light color is
>> determined from a skybox/environment, relative to the eye-to-fragment
>> angle. x3dom has it for PBR purposes.
>>
>> x3dom has BackdropBackground as a special case of Background. It is a
>> simple static image and can be quite useful:
>> https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/issues/971 . If only the backUrl field
>> is populated, it is used as a static backdrop.
>>
>> Plane is used but I forget why it is there over Rectangle2D. The extra
>> geometry nodes are rarely used. Teapot can be useful for testing
>> across browsers but that is probably not a good reason to expand the
>> spec.
>>
>> -Andreas
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 1:36 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>> <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks for feedback Andreas.
>> >
>> > On 10/18/2019 4:18 AM, Andreas Plesch wrote:
>> > >> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 10:33:55 +0000
>> > >> From: "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <brutzman at nps.edu>
>> > >> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> > >> Cc: X3D Graphics Working Group <x3d at web3d.org>
>> > >> Subject: [x3d-public] X3D Working Group Agenda 28 OCT 2019: X3Dv4
>> issues review
>> > >>
>> > >> ==================================
>> > >>[...]
>> > >> 2. *Carryover issue: material, textures, lighting*
>> > >>
>> > >>> a. Good discussion on interplay between materials and textures is
>> occurring on both the X3DOM and X_ITE mailing lists.  [...]
>> > >>>
>> > >>> * X3DOM conversation
>> > >>>     https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/issues/993
>> > >>>
>> > >>> * X_ITE conversation
>> > >>>     https://github.com/create3000/x_ite/issues/50
>> > >>
>> > >> Is this driving to closure satisfactorily? Are precise changes
>> expected for X3Dv4?
>> > >
>> > > x3dom has been updated to be more spec. complaint and tries to detect
>> > > if an image texture is greyscale from the image itself now.
>> > >
>> > > Michalis has good language for precise changes which would much
>> > > simplify image texture and color mixing by always just multiplying.
>> > > x3dom would likely support this change. Probably x-ite as well since
>> > > it makes implementations and reasoning easier.
>> > >
>> > >> We must have consistent rendering well defined.
>> > >
>> > > Currently, it is not very well defined. The changes would make it more
>> > > consistent with other graphics systems.
>> >
>> > Super.  Looking forward to compatible resolution between X3DOM, X_ITE,
>> Castle Game Engine and then X3Dv4 PBR.
>> >
>> > You have our commitment to have the specification match consensus on
>> repeatable authoring results for rendering.
>> >
>> > Hopefully other implementers are taking advantage of considering these
>> discussion threads as well.
>> >
>> > >> ==================================
>> > >>
>> > >> 3. *Carryover issue: features and nodes*
>> > >>
>> > >>> b. X3DOM and X_ITE have added some navigation types and other
>> special features.  Some features will also be part of SAI, for example
>> getting screen-space coordinates.  We need to expose these inside any X3D
>> model so that authors work to best effect with HTML5.  These need to be
>> considered and proposed publicly to get on the X3D Working Group agenda
>> prior to 16 DEC 2019.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The community has to live with the results... the community should
>> *Step Up to Help* !!  This is a real opportunity for authors and
>> implementers to speak out, helping to elevate important new candidate
>> capabilities.
>> > >>
>> > >> Nobody has stepped up yet.  Navigation types and other geometry
>> nodes sure seem like low-hanging fruit.
>> > >
>> > > I gather this issue is mostly with respect to VR navigation ? I am not
>> > > sure what this issue is about.
>> >
>> > Yes, X3DOM X_ITE and other browsers' documentation have noted some
>> additional navigation types and additional geometry nodes.  For example:
>> >
>> >         https://www.x3dom.org/new-turntable-navigation-mode-in-x3dom
>> >         https://www.x3dom.org/x3dom/example/x3dom_turntable.html
>> > and
>> >         X3DOM node index
>> >         https://doc.x3dom.org/author/nodes.html
>> >
>> > includes Block, Dish, ImageGeometry, Mesh, Multipart, Nozzle, Plane,
>> Pyramid, RectangularTorus, SlopedCylinder, Snout, SolidOfRevolution,
>> SphereSegment, Torus, Viewfrustum.
>> >
>> >         X_ITE Supported Nodes
>> >         http://create3000.de/x_ite/supported-nodes
>> >
>> > ... has BlendMode (not sure why).  Otherwise mostly appears to match
>> the spec, but doubtless has some suggested changes or additions to X3D.
>> >
>> >         http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/x_ite/blendmode
>> >
>> > Instant Reality has numerous variants, not sure what might be
>> repeatable/generalizable.  Perhaps PixelText, SolidText, SphereSegment,
>> Torus, Plane, ImageGeometry, Teapot, SphericalHarmonics, Highlight,
>> EnvironmentLight, BackdropBackground, GradientBackground, SolidBackground,
>> PolygonBackground, SkydomeBackground, many others are also listed.
>> >
>> >         http://doc.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetypetree
>> >
>> > Am expecting Castle Game Engine and FreeWrl also have wish lists.
>> >
>> > Not looking for "node bloat" but many of these sound quite simple and
>> might be good additions to X3Dvy author's palette of capabilities.
>> >
>> > Thanks everyone for considering the possibilities.  As before:
>> >
>> > >> Seems like a real opportunity for someone to unlock major latent
>> improvements for future authors and users.
>> > >>
>> > >> Am willing to spend meeting time to review once a suggestion list
>> has been posted publicly.
>> > all the best, Don
>> > --
>> > Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>> > Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>  +1.831.656.2149
>> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andreas Plesch
>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
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