[x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a time)
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Jan 25 15:33:21 PST 2021
Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use VPN, but first I
have to get on VPN
I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate to English?
This is the point where you steal my files? It always seems to happen
with VPN.
On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
> Hi John,
> You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the experimental
> owncloud web interface at my vServer:
> (owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing, but also has
> calendar and contacts via WebDav)
> URL https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud <http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud>
> user name vpncal
> password X3D4
> All the best
> Christoph
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr
> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> *An:* "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max.
> 10 connections at a time)
> John,
> Please *expect some maintenance work (short interruptions) next week
> Saturday (30th January).*
> I have now *defined an online calendar for the VPN*, to avoid flooding
> the mailing list.
> The calendar can be *easily integrated with the calendar on your
> Android phone* (see the green entry below!!!).
> Probably it is possible to integrate it with any smartphone (it uses
> the WebDav standard), but I haven't tried.
> Installation instructions:
> 1) Install DAVx5 on your Android smartphone (available at F-Droid)
> 2) Create new DAVx5 account "vpncal at lc-soc-lc.at"
> - URL:
> https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/
> <https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/>
> - user: vpncal
> - pw: X3D4
> 3) Enable and trigger the synchronization of WebCal
> 4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the "personal" calendar is
> activated for display
> The installation instructions will be available at
> https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental <https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental>
> soon.
> If you have set the synchronization correctly, then it should be
> possible for you to make calendar entries, too (e.g. test sessions,
> where you need more than 2 connections, or some specific multicast
> address).
> KR
> Christoph
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr
> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> *An:* "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
> connections at a time)
> Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi, and all interested in multiuser
> Being very curious to get to know, whether the "server-less mode"
> could really work, I was thinking about what could I contribute?
> I have got this tiny vServer at hoststar.at (hosted at some cloud in
> Germany), where I could implement a VPN for "server-less experiments".
> Voilá
> So, if you have a Windows 10 client, then what you can do:
> 1) Install OpenVPN Connect software (community edition) -
> https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/
> <https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/>
>
> 2) Unzip the config.zip from attachment into C:\Program
> Files\OpenVPN\config
> 3) Start OpenVPN Client
> 4) Connect
> 5) Now your client is a multihomed host with an additional network
> interface at 172.27.224.0/19
> 6) The network 172.27.224.0/19 is an island. Only people, who receive
> this e-mail, can connect.
> What is missing:
> a) a proof that multicast addresses work on the VPN
> b) an online calendar to coordinate the multicast sessions at the
> VPN-> I will provide this on request.
> KR,
> Christoph
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 01:34 Uhr
> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> An: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
> Hi John,
>
> Currently having two issues:
>
> 1) can test the VPN only with two Windows clients -> you have to
> create your own experience with the Linux client
> 2) still have to make the VPN permanent -> now the VPN has to be
> restarted manually after server restart.
>
> Pls. expect final answer by Saturday evening, CET.
>
> My plan:
>
> I will publish (at a hidden place):
>
> a) example configuration from Windows OpenVPN Connect client
> b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root certificate, which you have to trust
> c) x3d-public.key private key for the Web3D community (not really private)
> d) x3d-public.crt certificate for the Web3D community (signed by yeti
> -> my server will let you in)
> e) ta.key additional symmetric key (must be identical on client and
> server)
>
> Physical restriction: max. 10 connections at the same time, dynamic IP
> addresses from a private IPv4 range (172.27.224.0/19).
>
> The VPN will be an island - the server will not route that subnet,
> unless from one client to the others (hopefully including multicast
> packets - not yet tested).
>
> KR
> Christoph
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021 um 07:38 Uhr
> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
> I am now prepared to have a "client" of your UDP DIS server at
> hoststar.at. I need things like address and port, per X3D PDU nodes.
>
> If there is ssh information for reaching your server network, let me
> know. This is my preferred method. I do not believe I need special
> permission except for perhaps a new user account.
>
> I've never really used a VPN, and will probably need instructions. My
> experience with VPN varies "not very useful" and "OMG, my friends are
> going to steal my files."
>
> John
>
> On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
> If everything works fine (and if I've understood correctly), then you
> can do tests with multicast IP transport, although you are
> geographically separated.
>
> That's what I would like to try basically
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
> Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John Carlson
> <yottzumm at gmail.com>[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]:
> My friends have asked me to set up a VPN on my machine in the past. I
> don't really see the value of a VPN.
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM Christoph Valentin
> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]> wrote:
>
> What I am going to try is to setup a VPN with OpenVPN and my vServer
> at hoststar.at[http://hoststar.at <http://hoststar.at>], so we can do
> a test session with DIS (hopefully).
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021 um 23:13 Uhr
> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]>
> An: "Christoph Valentin"
> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
> <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>
> What I was going to do is try to get DIS from GitHub and DIS from
> X_ITE to talk to each other.
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM Christoph Valentin
> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]> wrote:
> ok
>
> let me repeat your proposal:
>
> >>>>> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS
> Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor. I
> think the first step would be to take these, see what they have in
> common, and go from there for deeper analyses.
>
> I think everybody agrees.
>
> So what would be the very first step (before the first step)? Assign
> responsibilities? Create a Wiki? Ask for official decision? Just do
> it? Who? What? When? Create an official backlog? Use the S&P-ARK?
>
> kind regards
> Christoph
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
>
> Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb Christoph Valentin
> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>:
>
> Not much,
>
> 1) It's another use case, which has proven it's usefulness during
> SrrTrains v0.01:
> - Customized Client Side Calculations
> ( sent to x3d-public in January 2014:
> https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>][https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>]]
> )
>
> 2) And an idea (which is not yet settled).
> - idea is to have two levels of identification:
> identify the sensor by "streamName" + "networkSensorId"
> (BS Collaborate: only "streamName"
> Octaga: only "networkSensorId")
>
> 1) the stream = the model = the real life
> entity e.g. "car"
> 2) the sensor nodes themselves e.g. "steering",
> "motor", "doors"
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021 um 03:59 Uhr
> Von: "GL" <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com]>
> An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'"
> <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>
> I am not sure what results you are referring to. Did I miss something?
>
>
> From: x3d-public
> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]
> On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21 PM
> To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>
>
> so basically you want to ignore my results?
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
>
> Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL
> <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com]>:
> Christoph,
>
> Thank you for the clarifications and your general dedication. I
> believe that little misunderstandings should be addressed before they
> snowball into bigger misconceptions.
>
>
>
> > If we specify a general Network Sensor API, then content can run
> > with any X3D Player that supports the Network Sensor API.
>
> If you read again my last paragraph, I try to make a distinction
> between a multiuser client and a X3D player. In other words, the
> player is not necessarily the client. It appears to be a common
> misconception that the X3D player must also be the MU client, while in
> truth it really doesn't have to. For the reasons previously stated, I
> tend to prefer that the player does not in fact act as the client.
>
>
> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon
> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary.
>
>
> That is precisely why I am here. I do NOT want the application
> protocol to be proprietary. And the fact that we still don't have a
> standard keeps me from moving forward, because any development efforts
> I make may someday have to be rewritten once we do have a standard.
> IOW, I am not a big fan of reworking systems. I'd rather use open
> standards as early in the process as possible to facilitate
> interoperability later.
>
>
> > If the protocol was specified, then I could use ANY
> > server with the X3Daemon Client.
>
>
> Ideally, systems could interoperate, though there are other factors to
> consider. For example avatars must login to authenticate their
> identity and assets, consisting of information that may or may not be
> available to a third party server. But yes, you get the general idea.
>
>
>
>
> > It is not sufficient to specify the
> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. ...,
> > but I had the feeling that you want to
> > omit the specification of the protocol.
>
>
> Read again, I was referring specifically to network protocols. Still,
> at this early stage, I feel it may be a little premature to get too
> involved with an application protocol, that until we get a better
> grasp of what the requirements will be. For this reason, I am of the
> opinion that fields and events should be specified first. Just so that
> we have something to build upon.
>
> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS
> Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor. I
> think the first step would be to take these, see what they have in
> common, and go from there for deeper analyses.
>
> Once we have that settled, IMO, only then should we turn to discuss an
> application layer protocol and its ramifications. GL
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: x3d-public
> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]
> On Behalf Of
> > Christoph Valentin
> > Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 5:09 PM
> > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
> >
> > Dear Gina Lauren
> >
> > Please find some feed back *inline*.
> >
> > Generally, please do not judge too hard, I'm not a native speaker
> and still
> > some of my wordings do not fit to the real intention.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Christoph
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >You want to lock in your users. That's not the spirit of open source.
> >
> > For once I was beginning to open up about the inner workings of a
> multiuser
> > system, but surprisingly, you apparently don't want to hear about
> it. It is
> > difficult to talk about open standards for a NSN if we can't refer to
> > actual implementations. It's not like there are a lot of them around..
> > [CV]: I should not have written this. However, I was a little bit
> > impatient, because I have been preaching for years and years that the
> > protocol itself must be specified. It is not sufficient to specify the
> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. Maybe I did not read
> > your words sufficiently thoroughly, but I had the feeling that you
> want to
> > omit the specification of the protocol.
> >
> > Also, who said anything about open source being a requirement? I was
> > actually volunteering closed source information for the benefit of
> an open
> > standard. If you can't see that I was actually "giving" something to the
> > community.. then perhaps I am wasting my time???
> > [CV]: Here I used "open source" and meant "open protocols", sorry, my
> > mistake. And, yes, I also "gave" a lot. Using too much time for my
> hobbies,
> > was one major reason, why my wife left us in 2015 (afterwards the
> SrrTrains
> > v0.01 project fell into hibernation mode due to lack of resources).
> >
> > Finally, if you would like to discuss an application layer protocol,
> maybe
> > look into work that has been done in the past referred to as vrtp
> and x3dp.
> > Not much, but a starting point. So far I have only heard vague comments
> > about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see below)
> > [CV]: I am sure that many people have contributed many parts of the
> puzzle.
> > Now we need somebody, who fits all together (that's not me, is it?)
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > [CV]: I never suggested to specifiy the transport protocol (http, rtp,
> > > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip, xmpp, ........).
> >
> > hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what is this about???
> > [CV]: Let's assume, we specify an "Application Layer Protocol"
> (let's call
> > it ALP in the sense of a "working title"). Probably the ALP will
> consist of
> > the definition of a few PDUs (e.g. in XML, JSON, YAML or similar
> syntax).
> > Now we have to define, how the PDUs have to be transmitted over the
> > network. Will they be sent as payload in http messages (in the
> body)? Will
> > they be sent as payload in SIP messages (in the body)? Will they be sent
> > directly over tcp connections?
> > To get historically: at the beginning of the IETF they had a great
> > movement. You could get T-Shirts with the meme "IP over everything". IP
> > should connect any network with any network, building the
> Inter-network. So
> > they had to write one RFC for each L2 protocol in order to specify,
> how IP
> > has to be transported over any L2 link/network.
> > I am dreaming of an "ALP over everything" movement.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are members of the TCP/IP protocol family. UDP is as
> > >old as TCP, just simpler. SCTP is younger. It tries to merge advantages
> > >of both TCP and UDP and was originally invented to transport SS7
> protocols
> > >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports 64k streams per association, what
> perfectly fits
> > >to our needs, imho
> >
> > Why are you trying to lecture me about network protocols? And what is it
> > exactly that you are saying or not saying, I find rather perplexing and
> > fail to see the relevancy. Let's keep going...
> > [CV]: I thought you wrote "SCTP is not TCP/IP". I want to stress
> that SCTP
> > actually IS TCP/IP
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >[CV]: Actually I suggested to specifiy ONE AND ONLY ONE application
> layer
> > protocol,
> >
> > No-one is questioning this as far as I know. Isn't that precisely
> what we
> > are trying to do?
> > Why are you augmenting this in my comments?
> >
> > [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did not read your words sufficiently
> thoroughly,
> > but I had the feeling that you want to omit the specification of the
> > protocol.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >[CV]: The API (i.e Network Sensor) must be specified to run ONE content
> > with ANY X3D Player.
> >
> > Let's be careful here. The X3D player does not necessarily need to have
> > agency over the application protocol. For example the X3Daemon client
> > (sorry to bring it up) is entirely separate from the player other
> than for
> > interpreting ECMAScripts and rendering the results to screen. IOW, the
> > X3Daemon client can theoretically run in any X3D player, regardless of
> > internal multiuser coding, as long as ECMAScript (JavaScript) is
> supported.
> > This makes it very easy for authors to script avatar and object
> behaviors,
> > since it provides direct access to X3D nodes. It is also a reason why we
> > need to define a NetworkSensor node as part of the X3D standard.
> > [CV]: That's exactly what I am saying: you specified your X3Daemon
> client
> > API, so a content that uses that API, can theoretically run with ANY X3D
> > Player (that the X3Daemon client supports). If we specify a general
> Network
> > Sensor API, then content can run with any X3D Player that supports the
> > Network Sensor API.
> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon
> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary. If the protocol was
> specified,
> > then I could use ANY server with the X3Daemon Client. It's similar
> with BS
> > Contact and BS Collaborate.
> > Most customers are very sensitive about getting locked in. No matter if
> > open source or closed source. We (my employer) made this experience with
> > railway operators, too.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > GL
> >
> > ________________________________________________________
> > * * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * * *
> > * * Virtual Reality -- Application Programming * *
> > * 3D Net Productions
> 3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com
> <http://3dnetproductions.com>[http://3dnetproductions.com
> <http://3dnetproductions.com>]] *
> >
> >
>
>
>
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