[X3D-Ecosystem] Nearly post mortem

[John Carlson]

All is well, Joe, the humanoid just needs be animated.  I need to figure
out why memory allocations are failing on Jin 11f mesh (concatenated
animation version).

On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 8:44 PM Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net> wrote:

> > What I have discovered in my journeys is to that locations seem to
> added together, such that if humanoid_root not at 0,0,0, then it gets added
> to sacroiliac, etc.
>
>
>
> it is because your transform hierarchy is wrong. The translation for one
> is adding to another so the hierarchy is adding srong.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katy Schildmeyer <katy at ksappareldesign.com>
> Sent: Jul 2, 2024 6:45 PM
> To: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> Cc: Carol McDonald <cemd2 at comcast.net>, GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>,
> Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>, Michalis Kamburelis <
> michalis.kambi at gmail.com>, <x3d-ecosystem at web3d.org>
> Subject: Re: Nearly post mortem
>
>
> John,
>
> Let me know if you are free tonite or tomorrow to just jump on a call with
> jin. I may have some ideas. Dunno if they will go against what you are
> trying for, but worth a review. Let me know what works for you!
>
>
> Katherine Schildmeyer
> KS Apparel Design & Consulting
> www.ksappareldesign.com
> PH: 503-367-4856
> *This message and accompanying documents are covered by the Electronic
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> information intended for the specified individual(s) only. This information
> is confidential. Unless stated to the contrary, any opinions or comments
> are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of the
> company. If you are not the intended recipient or an agent responsible
> for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
> you have received this document in error and that any review,
> dissemination, copying, or the taking of action based on the contents of
> this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete
> the original message.
>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 10:43 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I also think that HAnim export may remain viable, but will be joints+skin
>> based, until Blender or an extension raises the game.
>>
>> Any examples to the otherwise welcome.
>>
>> I think we should perhaps focus on authoring tools which produce segments
>> and sites, and provide conversion to X3D in the short term, like
>> WinterAndSpring.
>>
>> But I’ll try delta transforms first.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:21 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If delta transforms don’t work, I’m willing to say that Joint centers
>>> won’t work without Blender bones, which probably means we should focus on
>>> joints+multiple skins (clothes), and find another tool to hook sites to
>>> segments to joints.  Further development on the Blender addon should be
>>> focused on more fruitful areas, like PBR import/export, or revamping
>>> Blender itself, to suit X3D requirements (the latter is beyond my interest,
>>> skill and pay grade, I don’t do C++ debugging like a lowly paid game
>>> developer.  My interest might be piqued by a 5 year, 1.25 million contract
>>> with benefits, and then I would probably die.  What’s the point?) Systems
>>> which already support X3D could be employed to develop an authoring system
>>> (CGE, Sunrize, Titania, Flux???).  I’d consider working with Pascal and
>>> JavaScript, pro bono.  Pascal looks a lot more sane than C++.
>>>
>>> There might be a way to hook armatures into joints, sites and segments,
>>> without Blender bones, but don’t ask me how to animate that behemoth yet.
>>> I think we’re more likely to have success converting sites and segments to
>>> Blender bones in addition to joints, but I don’t know how to hook
>>> Transforms or Groups to Blender bones, so no go.  At this point, i don’t
>>> quite know how to hook armature to anything but Blender bones and mesh.
>>>
>>> If someone can make available a blender file which shows something else,
>>> that would probably be a step forward.
>>>
>>> One could also take the approach that animation should not be done in
>>> Blender, but I’m already hearing rumblings of KHR_interactivity being
>>> implemented.
>>>
>>> Note that when I went for #beginner-help on Blender Discord, no one
>>> wanted to help with X3D.
>>>
>>> If I get go ahead to convert sites and segments to Blender bones, I will
>>>  go ahead with that.
>>>
>>> The reason why our initial Blender examples worked was because the
>>> nesting of transforms went in one direction.  I’m pretty sure if the
>>> centers go one way, then the reverse, one will need delta transforms or
>>> non-nested transforms. I would welcome this  X3D example being developed.
>>>
>>> Overall, it looks like I got extremely lucky that gramps worked in
>>> Blender, and I could export him.
>>>
>>> All the problems probably go away without a hierarchy.
>>>
>>> Anyway, after delta transforms, I’ll be looking for some direction.  If
>>> they work, then I see a path forward for sites and segments.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 10:10 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I have discovered in my journeys is to that locations seem to
>>>> added together, such that if humanoid_root not at 0,0,0, then it gets added
>>>> to sacroiliac, etc.  that is, if you go down the leg or arm, they will go
>>>> upwards in Y, despite perfect location values appearing in Blender.  It
>>>> probably doesn’t help to do any kind of coordinate swapping or matrix_local
>>>> vs matrix_world.  What I will look into is doing delta transforms next,
>>>> subtracting child center from parent center and assigning to delta
>>>> location.  Another way to solve this is provide a flat transform hierarchy.
>>>>
>>>> I will check in an example which shows this—eventually.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I’m discovering new ways to curse at AI, finally taking over
>>>> from them, despite luring them with $20/month. Probably you.com is
>>>> better for the end user and worse for the AI provider.  It just seems like
>>>> you.com could be blocked by the AI providers.
>>>>
>>>> Blender’s not much better than AI.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 4:06 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have revamped the examples and created a bat script to run the
>>>>> python along with showing the examples in castle-model-viewer.  Enjoy!
>>>>>
>>>>> X3DJSONLD/blend/localtest at master · coderextreme/X3DJSONLD
>>>>> (github.com)
>>>>> <https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/tree/master/blend/localtest>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still working on JinLOA1, showing that centers AND geometry can be
>>>>> loaded properly, while also nesting HAnimJoints in Blender, and ignoring
>>>>> joints and segments fields in HAnimHumanoid.
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel a bit like John C. from Terminator, saving humanoids from
>>>>> SkyNet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 10:08 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, except for JinLOA1scaled1.x3d. Don’t import with the .x3d addon,
>>>>>> use the provided python and change the file name.  The default addon does
>>>>>> not handle ROUTEs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will double check the files.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 6:29 PM Katy Schildmeyer <
>>>>>> katy at ksappareldesign.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John, are there supposed to be animations on these when I press play
>>>>>>> for them in blender? Otherwise I see the centers and hierarchy when I
>>>>>>> import as x3d. Will also test in c4d and etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Katherine Schildmeyer
>>>>>>> KS Apparel Design & Consulting
>>>>>>> www.ksappareldesign.com
>>>>>>> PH: 503-367-4856
>>>>>>> *This message and accompanying documents are covered by the
>>>>>>> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521, and contains
>>>>>>> information intended for the specified individual(s) only. This information
>>>>>>> is confidential. Unless stated to the contrary, any opinions or
>>>>>>> comments are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view
>>>>>>> of the company. If you are not the intended recipient or an agent
>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>>>>>> notified that you have received this document in error and that any review,
>>>>>>> dissemination, copying, or the taking of action based on the contents of
>>>>>>> this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
>>>>>>> communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete
>>>>>>> the original message.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 5:18 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I appear to have solved the problem with the Blender X3D addon
>>>>>>>> (crosses fingers).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps someone is willing to do a final test before I attempt to
>>>>>>>> incorporate it into a Blender addon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will next try the example on Hanim Jin 20c for loading into
>>>>>>>> Blender.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>
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