[x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support

Sun Dec 16 09:20:13 PST 2018

Hi Albert,
> Let me focus on one of the problems we encountered to make my point. 
> On out platform, as example on one of the 3D websites, we wanted to 
> allow text chats among visitors in the 3D environment. Therefore we 
> needed an equivalent of a textarea to popup in the 3D space, with text 
> wrapping, scrollbars and the possibility to set the text cursor at any 
> required place by clicking on the text. 

In this example, do you wish the text chat window to be a full 3D object 
that is positioned in 3D space? This would be something that has front, 
sides, and back; so it would be possible to move around/away/towards the 
object. This would be (in concept) putting an HTML textarea on a 3D 
object in your virtual space. Another alternative would be to overlay 
the HTML textarea region over the virtual space creating a heads-up 
display.

In the first case, the chat region is part of the virtual space and 
needs to interact and be controlled by VR application. In the second 
case, the chat area remains under HTML control. Whatever controls the VR 
space would interact with the application through the normal DOM 
interface. The second case has the advantage of being able to draw upon 
all of the tools of the browser to assist the user, especially if the 
user is disabled and requires (for example) sight to text handling.

XSeen was designed and built with full HTML integration. There is one 
online example that comes close to your concepts, through it uses fixed 
labels rather than a textarea -- 
https://xseen.org/example-capabilities/complex-test-scenes/#3. The 
labels are HTML div elements that can contain any HTML, including 
textarea. Control of the contents of each label region is completely 
through the DOM, so a 3rd-party text chat (or voice to text chat) could 
easily be used.

Leonard Daly

> It seems to me that such a basic feature should be included in a 
> future X3D version, and not be left as a quite challenging JavaScript 
> implementation.
> To me, it is in the very nature of the declarative approach to supply 
> tags for these common features, although they will only become common 
> when 3D will be used more for business implementations (not only as 
> part of a 2D page).
>
> Albert Jan Wonnink
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Van:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Verzonden:* zondag 16 december 2018 06:15
> *Aan:* Albert Jan Wonnink
> *CC:* vmarchetti at kshell.com; X3D Graphics public mailing list
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support
> Since X3D is presentation layer, and since X3D content can coexist 
> within HTML and alongside SVG and exchange events throughout (see 
> X3DOM and X_ITE implementations), there are many possibilities.  Given 
> the flexibility of both HTML Script code and embedded X3D Script 
> nodes, as well as common use of Javascript, all manner of integration 
> appears to be possible today with more forthcoming.  Since the Anchor 
> node activates the the powerful and diverse functionality of a url, 
> much responsiveness is available even without scripting.
>
> The X3D v4 specification evolution is aimed at good coexistence of 
> 2D/3D/behavior markup for authors, emphasizing HTML5/DOM integration 
> while adding a number of additional excellent features.  The X3D v4.1 
> specification will follow closely afterwards, adding functionality for 
> virtual/augmented/mixed reality applications.  All this work is 
> steadily progressing.  As ever with these specifications, hardware and 
> software independence is achieved by defining page and model 
> functionality rather than attempting to legislate browser software 
> patterns (which morph regularly).  We no longer wait for "browser 
> company permission" and instead utilize the shared declarative power 
> of open standards.
>
> More on X3D v4.0 and v4.1 is found at
>
>         X3D Version 4
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d4
>
>         X3D version 4.0 Development
> http://www.web3d.org/wiki/index.php/X3D_version_4.0_Development
>
>         X3DOM: instant 3D the HTML way!
> https://www.x3dom.org
>
>         X_ITE X3D Browser: Have you seen this?
> http://create3000.de/x_ite/getting-started
>
> Meanwhile for what you describe, the Anchor node is a powerful way to 
> achieve form capabilities by associating url links with selectable 
> geometry.  Vince is providing great guidance, you may also find 
> KeySensor to be an even simpler variant that accepts single 
> keystrokes, rather than strings.
>
> Further links to resources for each node are found in X3D Tooltips.  
> X3D Scene Authoring Hints should also be useful.
>
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#Anchor
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#TouchSensor
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#StringSensor
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#KeySensor
>
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dSceneAuthoringHints.html#urls
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dSceneAuthoringHints.html#Scripts
>
> Please don't get stuck, trouble reports and progress reports are all 
> welcome.
>
> Good luck with your work, it sounds interesting!  8)
>
> On 12/11/2018 2:52 AM, Albert Jan Wonnink wrote:
> > If one can only have planes (or maybe even curved surfaces) having 
> 2d browser content in a 3D SceneGraph a large part of the described 
> issue would be resolved.
> > I thing the 2D and 3D browsing environment should be reciprocal to 
> be most effective. But I couldn't find this described yet, and I can 
> imagine this is viewed and tackled another way.
> >
> > Albert Jan Wonnink
> >
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Van:* Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink at hotmail.com>
> > *Verzonden:* maandag 10 december 2018 00:09
> > *Aan:* vmarchetti at kshell.com
> > *CC:* X3D Graphics public mailing list
> > *Onderwerp:* Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support
> > Thank you Vince for your reply.
> >
> > The Anchor is indeed what I somehow failed to find earlier in the 
> specification.
> >
> > The situation we envision is when XR glasses will be commonly used 
> to access 3D websites that have similar possibilities for businesses 
> as the current 2D sites. This means that 3D website builders should be 
> able surround a (part of a) text, an image or a 3D object with an 
> anchor. Also one needs normal text fields, radio- and checkboxes etc. 
> for users to be able to fill-in their choices and post back to the server.
> >
> > Is this already possible to do in X3D?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Albert Jan
> >
> >
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Van:* vmarchetti at kshell.com <vmarchetti at kshell.com>
> > *Verzonden:* zondag 9 december 2018 22:43
> > *Aan:* Albert Jan Wonnink
> > *CC:* X3D Graphics public mailing list
> > *Onderwerp:* Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support
> > Albert
> >
> > X3D does supports responding to mouse clicks on an elements of a 3D 
> scene graph through the TouchSensor node 
> (http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/pointingsensor.html#TouchSensor) 
> , and there is also  functionality of following a URL attached
> > to a shape in the Anchor node: 
> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/networking.html#Anchor
> >
> > There is a basic example of the Anchor node on the X_ITE website: 
> http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/networking/anchor/#example
> >
> > I'm not sure what form support would mean in the context of a 3D 
> Scenegraph, but there is a specification for capturing and responding 
> to keyboard presses in the StringSensor node: 
> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/keyboard.html#StringSensor
> >
> > Can you say more about how you would like to extend the familiar 
> interface patterns of hyperlinks and input forms into the 3D and VR 
> worlds?
> >
> > With Regards.
> > Vince Marchetti
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 9, 2018, at 3:36 PM, Albert Jan Wonnink 
> <awonnink at hotmail.com <mailto:awonnink at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> About a year ago we started a proof of concept of a browser 
> suitable for HoloLens and supporting business processes. We choose X3D 
> as basic format, but because of lack of knowledge of the full 
> specification, and having the focus on the technology, we added our 
> own tags using a separate namespace.
> >>
> >> The most important features for which we couldn't find the X3D 
> implementation where hyperlinks- and form support.
> >>
> >> Does X3D support these? If so, where can I find the specification?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Albert Jan Wonnink
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> x3d-public mailing list
> >> x3d-public at web3d.org <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> >> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
> all the best, Don
> -- 
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   
> +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics 
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman <http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman>
>
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-- 
*Leonard Daly*
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
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