[x3d-public] X3D minutes 17 April 2020: HAnim2 approved by ISO; X3D4 Audio and Sound Component: accepted PR9
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Tue Apr 28 13:48:38 PDT 2020
Audio > v4 > desktop > not good.
I had a peek at the new audio Extra Nodes and I after googling I didn't
find any easy paths forward for desktop applications
- maybe convert a WebAudo API js polyfill to native
- maybe MDN > Mozilla > firefox > webaudio API implementation for web
browser is in native and can be scraped.
I mention it in case someone working on the Audio has seen something for
native that will cover these extra nodes.
Thanks,
Doug Sanden
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:18 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
> Thanks Efi, will check, much appreciated. We didn't see the shape.html in
> Pull Request 9 so that is especially helpful.
>
> Dick and I are planning to work further Thursday on the Sound component,
> can devote some time during Friday call as well if you want to join.
>
> I found your slidesets from last October/November, am planning to upload
> them unless you have objections (or updates).
>
> v/r Don
>
>
> On 4/27/2020 3:43 PM, Eftychia Lakka wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > based on the above email (a number of questions: a-i), please find
> attached the .pdf file with the corresponding answers.
> >
> > Also, I am not sure that I understood what exactly is changed in the X3D
> repository in github in order to upload the updated version (the previous
> procedure included push in my github account and after that pull request).
> I will appreciate your help on this, maybe with some extra clarifications.
> Otherwise, I changed only two files (*sound*.html and *shape*.html), under
> the folder:
> X3D\ISO-IEC19775\ISO-IEC19775-1\ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0\ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1\Part01\components,
> so please find them attached.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Efi Lakka
> >
> >
> > Στις Τρί, 21 Απρ 2020 στις 11:20 μ.μ., ο/η Don Brutzman <
> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> έγραψε:
> >
> > Spec Editor meeting today, Dick and Don.
> >
> > We accepted Pull Request 9 and "dropped it on top" of existing Sound
> Component. All added CSS styles to indicate newly proposed work.
> >
> > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9
> >
> > *
> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/blob/master/ISO-IEC19775/ISO-IEC19775-1/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1/Part01/components/sound.html
> >
> > We also *deleted the branch* so further work will be in draft X3D4
> Specification itself.
> >
> > Efi and Thanos, we have a number of questions. Some big (but
> do-able) work ahead:
> >
> > a. Is AudioNode an object type or a node? How does it differ from
> X3DSoundSourceNode ?
> >
> > b. What is the abstract node interface hierarchy tree for Concepts
> section 4.4.2.3 ?
> >
> > c. Renumber nodes and integrate.
> >
> > d. Support table needs addition of nodes as Level 2.
> >
> > e. Once we confirm parent-child field relationships, we can work on
> Schema/DTD.
> >
> > f. Where are examples? Slideset? Please send. Several other TODO
> items appear below as well.
> >
> > g. Review fields and prose for each node. Standardize
> alphabetization and field ordering.
> >
> > h. Isn't more needed in the Concepts section of this component?
> >
> > i. Where is draft SoundMaterial/SoundProperties? Do we merge with
> X3DMaterialMaterial node?
> >
> > Onward we go, again thanks.
> >
> > On 4/19/2020 6:41 PM, Don Brutzman wrote:
> > > 1. *Summary*. Today's session focused on X3D Sound Component and
> work by Efi Lakka and Athanasios Malamos to gain compatibility with W3C Web
> Audio components that are commonly being implemented in HTML5 browsers.
> Numerous references are also included.
> > >
> > > We met Friday 17 April 2020 0800-0940 for regular weekly meeting
> of X3D Working Group.
> > >
> > > Attendees: Efi Lakka, Athanasios Malamos, Vince Marchetti,
> Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Anita Havele, Don Brutzman.
> > >
> > > [1.1] X3D Graphics Working Group
> > > https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d
> > >
> > > Confirmed that no member-only information is present in these
> minutes. Noted that the information here:
> > > - helps members pay full attention to the detailed improvement of
> X3D4,
> > > - helps community understand and trust the diligence of the
> process, and
> > > - helps everyone understand that Web3D Consortium offers serious
> member value!
> > > https://www.web3d.org/join
> > >
> > > Note that all Web3D zoom conference lines are now protected by
> password.
> > >
> > > [1.2] Web3D Teleconference Information
> > > https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > >
> > > 2. *ISO Publication of HAnim*
> > >
> > > Good news! Dick and I worked for about an hour during one of our
> twice-weekly X3D Specification Editor teleconferences to confirm that the
> ISO version (published November 2019) indeed matches (a) what we submitted,
> and (b) the Web3D version. Everything looked great. 8)
> > >
> > > As most people know, these documents are available to members on
> github.
> > >
> > > Github links:
> > >
> > > [2.0] GitHub: Web3D Consortium
> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium
> > >
> > > [2.1] GitHub: Web3D Consortium members, HAnim
> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/HAnim
> > >
> > > [2.2] GitHub: Web3D Consortium members, HAnim Specifications
> combined parts 1 and 2
> > >
> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/HAnim/raw/master/ISO-IEC19774-combined-IS.Web3D.zip
> > >
> > > We've handed them off to Executive Director Anita and the
> Webmaster to post on web3d.org <http://web3d.org> pages. These go on
> web3d.org <http://web3d.org> under STANDARDS (All, Recommended, HAnim)
> replacing the v2.0 DIS version with this new v2.0 International Standard
> (IS) version.
> > >
> > > Next steps:
> > > - publish on web3d.org <http://web3d.org>,
> > > - public announcement (Anita will give initial draft to HAnim
> principals) with completion goal next week,
> > > - track ISO correction of their catalog pages (H-Anim to HAnim),
> > > - track ISO addition of HAnim specifications to their freely
> available ISO specifications,
> > > - Joe and Don are now reviewing HAnim 1 and 2 examples for
> correctness. This take a number of weeks because the example version
> numbers need close review, and because not all prior changes were applied
> thoroughly).
> > > - if needed, submit a corrigendum to ISO for updated HAnim
> examples. Dick can help with the process.
> > >
> > > Suggested: followup with Medical Working Group about future
> strategies taking advantage of new HAnim capabilities; also DICOM
> HealthLevel7 and IEEE 3D Body Processing (3DBP). Perhaps OGC GeoPose too?
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > >
> > > 2.5 *Web3DUX Working Group*
> > >
> > > Announcement needed, Anita will contact working group chairs.
> Nicholas Anita Don and Dick will continue helping to encourage broader
> activity. They meet every other Wednesday on Web3D Teleconference line
> 1015-1100 pacific.
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > >
> > > 3. *Audio Improvements and Sound Component*
> > >
> > > Summary: Prior review by X3D Working Group accepted this work for
> X3D4. We are thrilled to see much progress today. Much detail follows.
> > >
> > > This week's X3D Working Group teleconference features Efi Lakka
> and Professor Athanasios Malamos reviewing significant changes to X3D Sound
> Component for spatialization of sound and alignment of audio capabilities
> with current Web capabilities. This builds on capabilities first reported
> in the Web3D Conference held in Crete a few years ago. Her work includes
> updates to the X3D Sound Component (as a github pull request) plus demo
> scenes implemented in X3DOM.
> > >
> > > Efi Lakka reviewed the overall design and summarized her prior
> work. Pull Request 9 information follows, also see attached notification
> from github.
> > >
> > > [3.1] X3D4 PR9
> > > ===============================================================
> > > You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:
> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9
> > >
> > > "Draft replacement to Sound Component for X3D4 Abstract
> Architecture, adding improved spatial audio rendering capabilities that
> take advantage of W3C Audio recommendations."
> > >
> > > Patch Links:
> > > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9.patch
> > > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9.diff
> > > ===============================================================
> > >
> > > [3.2] Multimedia Laboratory, Hellenic Mediterranean University
> > > http://medialab.hmu.gr
> > >
> > > [3.3] For everyone who wants to see how this first approach
> works, visit
> > > http://medialab.hmu.gr/minipages/x3domAudio/index.html
> > >
> > > Background document on X3D4 Implementations page is quite
> thorough. Small changes as version 3 will be released shortly.
> > >
> > > [3.3] X3Dv4 Implementations Status
> > > https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-implementations
> > >
> > > [3.3] Attachment X3dAudioExtension_v02.pdf
> > >
> https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3Dv4%20Implementations/X3dAudioExtension_v02.pdf
> > >
> > > [3.4] TODO needed: slideset shown during meeting
> > > ___________
> > >
> > > Structure of hooking together various audio filters and sources
> is interesting. Generally design of an audio "chain" is accomplished
> primarily by hierarchical parent-child field references, not ROUTE
> connections.
> > >
> > > Addition of AcousticMaterial and properties will soon be included
> - seems like the right idea to do now since it is part of the
> spatialization computations. Are extra properties needed? an important
> area for discussion and continued work. We will temporarily add to Sound
> component for initial review, then into Shape component when confirmed
> robust.
> > >
> > > Implementation and evaluation will guide dialog and decision.
> Suggest specification prose sooner (at least as placeholders) and any
> additional implementation to follow shortly after. For now, "Better is the
> enemy of Good Enough" to keep building understanding and momentum.
> > >
> > > X3DOM examples are more mature now, and can be found at
> > >
> > > [3.5] TODO needed: latest examples link
> > > ___________
> > >
> > > /Discussion/
> > >
> > > Q: When can X_ITE plan to begin implementation work? Likely in
> another few months, probably best for everyone to focus completely on X3DOM
> implementation completely. (Andreas Plesch has visibility into both
> codebases and can advise.)
> > >
> > > Q: Is JavaScript necessary for implementation support? Not
> necessarily. Most code so far has been moved into the X3DOM
> implementation. Some might be used for audio animation-style effects, see
> examples.
> > >
> > > Q: So far, are you only using browser audio?
> > > A: yes.
> > >
> > > Q: Have you seen any audio implementations other than HTML
> browsers? This might be helpful for some of the non-HTML X3D players
> (view3dscene, FreeWrl, instantreality et al.). A: have not looked at
> that. More investigation by others is appropriate.
> > >
> > > Q: How close is X3D audio content to HTML5 audio code? Can
> similar effects be achieved either inside X3D scene or above in enclosing
> HTML page? Will HTML audio authors find it familiar?
> > > A: X3D4 authors will find the new component as easy to use as the
> existing X3D3 component. Implementation complexity is mostly hidden.
> > >
> > > Q: What is your assessment of maturity of the W3C Audio candidate
> recommendations (CRs)?
> > > A: They seem stable but not always complete. More study and
> feedback appears appropriate.
> > >
> > > Background W3C resources of interest:
> > >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > [a.1] W3C » Standards » Web Design and Applications » Audio
> and Video
> > > https://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/audiovideo
> > >
> > > [a.2] W3C Wiki: Audio
> > > https://www.w3.org/wiki/Audio
> > >
> > > [a.3] Making Audio and Video Media Accessible
> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av
> > >
> > > [a.4] W3C Standards and Drafts: Audio
> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/?title=audio
> > >
> > > [a.5] Web Audio API
> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation, 18 September 2018
> > > Latest published version:
> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio
> > >
> > > "Abstract. This specification describes a high-level Web API for
> processing and synthesizing audio in web applications. The primary paradigm
> is of an audio routing graph, where a number of AudioNode objects are
> connected together to define the overall audio rendering. The actual
> processing will primarily take place in the underlying implementation
> (typically optimized Assembly / C / C++ code), but direct script processing
> and synthesis is also supported.
> > > The Introduction section covers the motivation behind this
> specification.
> > > This API is designed to be used in conjunction with other APIs
> and elements on the web platform, notably: XMLHttpRequest [XHR] (using the
> responseType and response attributes). For games and interactive
> applications, it is anticipated to be used with the canvas 2D [2dcontext]
> and WebGL [WEBGL] 3D graphics APIs."
> > >
> > > "Status of this document. [...] This document was published by
> the the Web Audio Working Group as a Candidate Recommendation. This
> document is intended to become a W3C Recommendation. [...] A preliminary
> implementation report is available."
> > >
> > > [a.6] "CanIUseWebAudio"
> > > https://caniuse.com/#feat=audio-api
> > >
> > > [a.7] Audio Output Devices API
> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation 03 October 2017
> > > Latest published version:
> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/audio-output
> > >
> > > "Abstract. This document defines a set of JavaScript APIs that
> let a Web application manage how audio is rendered on the user audio output
> devices."
> > >
> > > "Status of This Document. [...] While the specification is
> feature complete and is expected to be stable, it might evolve based on
> implementation feedback that will be gathered as its associated test suite
> evolves. This test suite will be used to build an implementation report of
> the API; to go into Proposed Recommendation status, the group expects to
> demonstrate implementation of each feature in at least two deployed
> browsers."
> > >
> > > [a.8] Web MIDI API
> > > W3C Working Draft 17 March 2015
> > > Latest published version:
> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/webmidi
> > >
> > > [a.9] Web Audio Processing: Use Cases and Requirements
> > > W3C Working Group Note 29 January 2013
> > > Latest published version:
> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases
> > > includes
> > > 2.2 3D game with music and convincing sound effects
> > >
> https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases/#x3d-game-with-music-and-convincing-sound-effects
> > > and
> > > 2.11 User Control of Audio
> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases/#user-control-of-audio
> > >
> > > [a.9] Audiobooks
> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation 17 March 2020
> > > Latest published version:
> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/audiobooks
> > >
> > > "Abstract. This specification describes the requirements for the
> creation of audiobooks, using a profile of the Publication Manifest
> specification."
> > >
> > > [a.10] HTML5.2, section 4.7.11 The audio element
> > >
> https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/semantics-embedded-content.html#the-audio-element
> > >
> > > "An audio element represents a sound or audio stream." [...]
> > >
> > > [a.11] Audio Working Group
> > > https://www.w3.org/2011/audio
> > >
> > > "Mission. The mission of the Audio Working Group is to add
> advanced sound and music synthesis capabilities to the Open Web Platform."
> > >
> > > [a.12] Publishing Working Group
> > > https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg
> > >
> > > "Mission. The mission of the Publishing Working Group is to
> enable all publications—with all their specificities and traditions—to
> become first-class entities on the Web. The group will provide the
> necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform to make the combination of
> traditional publishing and the Web complete in terms of accessibility,
> usability, portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, and
> reliable cross referencing."
> > >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > Q: Is "chain" the right term for an effect? We should likely use
> same term as W3C Audio group uses.
> > > A. TODO check/confirm.
> > >
> > > Within the Web Audio CR, looks like the proper term is "modular
> routing" for composition of AudioNode source-node outputs and
> destination-object inputs.
> > >
> > > [a.13] Web Audio API, Features: Modular Routing
> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#ModularRouting
> > >
> > > Q: Is the audio "chain" of source-filter-effect-spatialization
> effect represented as your .mp3 file?
> > > A: TODO explain relationship.
> > >
> > > Tool of interest:
> > >
> > > [a.14] Web Audio Inspector (Chrome plugin)
> > > https://opensource.google/projects/audion
> > >
> > > "Audion (Web Audio Inspector) is a Chrome extension that adds a
> Web Audio panel to dev tools. This panel visualizes the web audio graph in
> real-time and lets users inspect nodes."
> > >
> > > Erratum: for example shown during screenshare,
> <X3DSoundSourceNode> should be <AudioClip> (or perhaps another newer
> node)... the object interface might be functionally correct but we need to
> be careful about syntax, can't use abstract node types in X3D model files.
> > >
> > > Don and Dick plan to work during Tuesday's X3D4 Specification
> Editors call to drop Efi's draft on top of existing X3D Sound component,
> see if we are ready to check in, if good enough then accept the merge and
> keep moving forward.
> > >
> > > Next steps for action:
> > > a. Marking up specification changes (css for proposed/yellow,
> deleted/orange) after including the Pull Request (PR9) in draft spec.
> > > b. Are there any node name changes to consider? Create summary
> list for confirmation. Use Mantis to track specific changes.
> > > c. Describing X3DOM implementation
> > > d. Publishing example models, evaluate implementation correctness.
> > > e. Encourage additional implementations X_iTE and other players -
> Web3D Call for Implementations in June, perhaps?
> > > f. demonstration video for "Learning X3D4" later when stable, a
> draft video was created today. Thanks! Anita will publish privately with
> X3D Working Group.
> > > g. prepare paper for Web3D 2020 in November? we hope so.
> > >
> > > Of related note: Web3D Consortium has the opportunity to nominate
> individual member(s) to participation in W3C Spatial Audio group. This can
> really help us achieve all of our goals effectively.
> > >
> > > [5.1] [x3d-public] Fwd: Audio Working Group Charter Approved;
> Call for Participation
> > >
> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-April/012060.html
> > >
> > > Subject to level of effort while implementing X3D4 Sound, Thanos
> and Efi are willing to participate. Don will participate as well and lead
> the initial engagement. Anyone else?
> > >
> > > Time expectation for completion: primary improvements are
> complete and demonstrated. More incremental work will continue over a
> number of months. Goal completion for initial examples and specification
> is June with announcement of near-completion at SIGGRAPH in July. Working
> together with W3C colleagues will help.
> > >
> > > Our plan is to check status on integrating PR9 Audio into the
> X3D4 draft in 2 weeks, 1 May 2000, at 0900 pacific, one hour into the
> regular X3D Working Group teleconference. (Please note that it is a bank
> holiday in Crete!)
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > >
> > > 4. Fixing Mantis access: partially complete.
> > >
> > > Webmaster has provided access to Mantis for following
> contributors:
> > >
> > >> On 4/7/2020 11:54 AM, Don Brutzman wrote:
> > >>> Webmaster, please add the following members to Mantis issue
> tracker:
> > >>>
> > >>> Athanasios Malamos <athanasios.malamos at gmail.com <mailto:
> athanasios.malamos at gmail.com>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Efi Lakka <efilakka at gmail.com <mailto:efilakka at gmail.com>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl <mailto:
> flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks for all support.
> > >
> > > However need to add them to X3D4 project. Didn't work for me so
> far, apparently due to lack of permissions. Have again requested webmaster
> support.
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > >
> > > Suggested topic for next week: Cross Origin Resource Sharing
> (CORS), following up on prior meeting topics.
> > >
> > > Onward we go. Have fun with X3D audio and sound! 8)
> > >
> > > all the best, Don
> >
> > all the best, Don
> > --
> > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
> > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> >
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
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