[x3d-public] X3D minutes 17 April 2020: HAnim2 approved by ISO; X3D4 Audio and Sound Component: accepted PR9
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Tue Apr 28 14:32:28 PDT 2020
https://github.com/LabSound/LabSound
https://github.com/exokitxr/exokit/tree/master/deps/exokit-bindings/webaudiocontext
Something here might work - the LabSoud is a permissive-licence rework of
MDN WebAudio API, but may be older but still has most of the nodes in the
v4 audio extra nodes list.
-Doug Sanden
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 2:48 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> Audio > v4 > desktop > not good.
> I had a peek at the new audio Extra Nodes and I after googling I didn't
> find any easy paths forward for desktop applications
> - maybe convert a WebAudo API js polyfill to native
> - maybe MDN > Mozilla > firefox > webaudio API implementation for web
> browser is in native and can be scraped.
> I mention it in case someone working on the Audio has seen something for
> native that will cover these extra nodes.
> Thanks,
> Doug Sanden
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:18 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Efi, will check, much appreciated. We didn't see the shape.html
>> in Pull Request 9 so that is especially helpful.
>>
>> Dick and I are planning to work further Thursday on the Sound component,
>> can devote some time during Friday call as well if you want to join.
>>
>> I found your slidesets from last October/November, am planning to upload
>> them unless you have objections (or updates).
>>
>> v/r Don
>>
>>
>> On 4/27/2020 3:43 PM, Eftychia Lakka wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > based on the above email (a number of questions: a-i), please find
>> attached the .pdf file with the corresponding answers.
>> >
>> > Also, I am not sure that I understood what exactly is changed in the
>> X3D repository in github in order to upload the updated version (the
>> previous procedure included push in my github account and after that pull
>> request). I will appreciate your help on this, maybe with some extra
>> clarifications. Otherwise, I changed only two files (*sound*.html and
>> *shape*.html), under the folder:
>> X3D\ISO-IEC19775\ISO-IEC19775-1\ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0\ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1\Part01\components,
>> so please find them attached.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Efi Lakka
>> >
>> >
>> > Στις Τρί, 21 Απρ 2020 στις 11:20 μ.μ., ο/η Don Brutzman <
>> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> έγραψε:
>> >
>> > Spec Editor meeting today, Dick and Don.
>> >
>> > We accepted Pull Request 9 and "dropped it on top" of existing
>> Sound Component. All added CSS styles to indicate newly proposed work.
>> >
>> > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9
>> >
>> > *
>> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/blob/master/ISO-IEC19775/ISO-IEC19775-1/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1/Part01/components/sound.html
>> >
>> > We also *deleted the branch* so further work will be in draft X3D4
>> Specification itself.
>> >
>> > Efi and Thanos, we have a number of questions. Some big (but
>> do-able) work ahead:
>> >
>> > a. Is AudioNode an object type or a node? How does it differ from
>> X3DSoundSourceNode ?
>> >
>> > b. What is the abstract node interface hierarchy tree for Concepts
>> section 4.4.2.3 ?
>> >
>> > c. Renumber nodes and integrate.
>> >
>> > d. Support table needs addition of nodes as Level 2.
>> >
>> > e. Once we confirm parent-child field relationships, we can work on
>> Schema/DTD.
>> >
>> > f. Where are examples? Slideset? Please send. Several other TODO
>> items appear below as well.
>> >
>> > g. Review fields and prose for each node. Standardize
>> alphabetization and field ordering.
>> >
>> > h. Isn't more needed in the Concepts section of this component?
>> >
>> > i. Where is draft SoundMaterial/SoundProperties? Do we merge with
>> X3DMaterialMaterial node?
>> >
>> > Onward we go, again thanks.
>> >
>> > On 4/19/2020 6:41 PM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>> > > 1. *Summary*. Today's session focused on X3D Sound Component and
>> work by Efi Lakka and Athanasios Malamos to gain compatibility with W3C Web
>> Audio components that are commonly being implemented in HTML5 browsers.
>> Numerous references are also included.
>> > >
>> > > We met Friday 17 April 2020 0800-0940 for regular weekly meeting
>> of X3D Working Group.
>> > >
>> > > Attendees: Efi Lakka, Athanasios Malamos, Vince Marchetti,
>> Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Anita Havele, Don Brutzman.
>> > >
>> > > [1.1] X3D Graphics Working Group
>> > > https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d
>> > >
>> > > Confirmed that no member-only information is present in these
>> minutes. Noted that the information here:
>> > > - helps members pay full attention to the detailed improvement
>> of X3D4,
>> > > - helps community understand and trust the diligence of the
>> process, and
>> > > - helps everyone understand that Web3D Consortium offers serious
>> member value!
>> > > https://www.web3d.org/join
>> > >
>> > > Note that all Web3D zoom conference lines are now protected by
>> password.
>> > >
>> > > [1.2] Web3D Teleconference Information
>> > > https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>> > >
>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> > >
>> > > 2. *ISO Publication of HAnim*
>> > >
>> > > Good news! Dick and I worked for about an hour during one of our
>> twice-weekly X3D Specification Editor teleconferences to confirm that the
>> ISO version (published November 2019) indeed matches (a) what we submitted,
>> and (b) the Web3D version. Everything looked great. 8)
>> > >
>> > > As most people know, these documents are available to members on
>> github.
>> > >
>> > > Github links:
>> > >
>> > > [2.0] GitHub: Web3D Consortium
>> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium
>> > >
>> > > [2.1] GitHub: Web3D Consortium members, HAnim
>> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/HAnim
>> > >
>> > > [2.2] GitHub: Web3D Consortium members, HAnim Specifications
>> combined parts 1 and 2
>> > >
>> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/HAnim/raw/master/ISO-IEC19774-combined-IS.Web3D.zip
>> > >
>> > > We've handed them off to Executive Director Anita and the
>> Webmaster to post on web3d.org <http://web3d.org> pages. These go on
>> web3d.org <http://web3d.org> under STANDARDS (All, Recommended, HAnim)
>> replacing the v2.0 DIS version with this new v2.0 International Standard
>> (IS) version.
>> > >
>> > > Next steps:
>> > > - publish on web3d.org <http://web3d.org>,
>> > > - public announcement (Anita will give initial draft to HAnim
>> principals) with completion goal next week,
>> > > - track ISO correction of their catalog pages (H-Anim to HAnim),
>> > > - track ISO addition of HAnim specifications to their freely
>> available ISO specifications,
>> > > - Joe and Don are now reviewing HAnim 1 and 2 examples for
>> correctness. This take a number of weeks because the example version
>> numbers need close review, and because not all prior changes were applied
>> thoroughly).
>> > > - if needed, submit a corrigendum to ISO for updated HAnim
>> examples. Dick can help with the process.
>> > >
>> > > Suggested: followup with Medical Working Group about future
>> strategies taking advantage of new HAnim capabilities; also DICOM
>> HealthLevel7 and IEEE 3D Body Processing (3DBP). Perhaps OGC GeoPose too?
>> > >
>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> > >
>> > > 2.5 *Web3DUX Working Group*
>> > >
>> > > Announcement needed, Anita will contact working group chairs.
>> Nicholas Anita Don and Dick will continue helping to encourage broader
>> activity. They meet every other Wednesday on Web3D Teleconference line
>> 1015-1100 pacific.
>> > >
>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> > >
>> > > 3. *Audio Improvements and Sound Component*
>> > >
>> > > Summary: Prior review by X3D Working Group accepted this work
>> for X3D4. We are thrilled to see much progress today. Much detail follows.
>> > >
>> > > This week's X3D Working Group teleconference features Efi Lakka
>> and Professor Athanasios Malamos reviewing significant changes to X3D Sound
>> Component for spatialization of sound and alignment of audio capabilities
>> with current Web capabilities. This builds on capabilities first reported
>> in the Web3D Conference held in Crete a few years ago. Her work includes
>> updates to the X3D Sound Component (as a github pull request) plus demo
>> scenes implemented in X3DOM.
>> > >
>> > > Efi Lakka reviewed the overall design and summarized her prior
>> work. Pull Request 9 information follows, also see attached notification
>> from github.
>> > >
>> > > [3.1] X3D4 PR9
>> > > ===============================================================
>> > > You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:
>> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9
>> > >
>> > > "Draft replacement to Sound Component for X3D4 Abstract
>> Architecture, adding improved spatial audio rendering capabilities that
>> take advantage of W3C Audio recommendations."
>> > >
>> > > Patch Links:
>> > > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9.patch
>> > > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9.diff
>> > > ===============================================================
>> > >
>> > > [3.2] Multimedia Laboratory, Hellenic Mediterranean University
>> > > http://medialab.hmu.gr
>> > >
>> > > [3.3] For everyone who wants to see how this first approach
>> works, visit
>> > > http://medialab.hmu.gr/minipages/x3domAudio/index.html
>> > >
>> > > Background document on X3D4 Implementations page is quite
>> thorough. Small changes as version 3 will be released shortly.
>> > >
>> > > [3.3] X3Dv4 Implementations Status
>> > > https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-implementations
>> > >
>> > > [3.3] Attachment X3dAudioExtension_v02.pdf
>> > >
>> https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3Dv4%20Implementations/X3dAudioExtension_v02.pdf
>> > >
>> > > [3.4] TODO needed: slideset shown during meeting
>> > > ___________
>> > >
>> > > Structure of hooking together various audio filters and sources
>> is interesting. Generally design of an audio "chain" is accomplished
>> primarily by hierarchical parent-child field references, not ROUTE
>> connections.
>> > >
>> > > Addition of AcousticMaterial and properties will soon be
>> included - seems like the right idea to do now since it is part of the
>> spatialization computations. Are extra properties needed? an important
>> area for discussion and continued work. We will temporarily add to Sound
>> component for initial review, then into Shape component when confirmed
>> robust.
>> > >
>> > > Implementation and evaluation will guide dialog and decision.
>> Suggest specification prose sooner (at least as placeholders) and any
>> additional implementation to follow shortly after. For now, "Better is the
>> enemy of Good Enough" to keep building understanding and momentum.
>> > >
>> > > X3DOM examples are more mature now, and can be found at
>> > >
>> > > [3.5] TODO needed: latest examples link
>> > > ___________
>> > >
>> > > /Discussion/
>> > >
>> > > Q: When can X_ITE plan to begin implementation work? Likely in
>> another few months, probably best for everyone to focus completely on X3DOM
>> implementation completely. (Andreas Plesch has visibility into both
>> codebases and can advise.)
>> > >
>> > > Q: Is JavaScript necessary for implementation support? Not
>> necessarily. Most code so far has been moved into the X3DOM
>> implementation. Some might be used for audio animation-style effects, see
>> examples.
>> > >
>> > > Q: So far, are you only using browser audio?
>> > > A: yes.
>> > >
>> > > Q: Have you seen any audio implementations other than HTML
>> browsers? This might be helpful for some of the non-HTML X3D players
>> (view3dscene, FreeWrl, instantreality et al.). A: have not looked at
>> that. More investigation by others is appropriate.
>> > >
>> > > Q: How close is X3D audio content to HTML5 audio code? Can
>> similar effects be achieved either inside X3D scene or above in enclosing
>> HTML page? Will HTML audio authors find it familiar?
>> > > A: X3D4 authors will find the new component as easy to use as
>> the existing X3D3 component. Implementation complexity is mostly hidden.
>> > >
>> > > Q: What is your assessment of maturity of the W3C Audio
>> candidate recommendations (CRs)?
>> > > A: They seem stable but not always complete. More study and
>> feedback appears appropriate.
>> > >
>> > > Background W3C resources of interest:
>> > >
>> > > -----
>> > >
>> > > [a.1] W3C » Standards » Web Design and Applications »
>> Audio and Video
>> > > https://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/audiovideo
>> > >
>> > > [a.2] W3C Wiki: Audio
>> > > https://www.w3.org/wiki/Audio
>> > >
>> > > [a.3] Making Audio and Video Media Accessible
>> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av
>> > >
>> > > [a.4] W3C Standards and Drafts: Audio
>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/?title=audio
>> > >
>> > > [a.5] Web Audio API
>> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation, 18 September 2018
>> > > Latest published version:
>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio
>> > >
>> > > "Abstract. This specification describes a high-level Web API for
>> processing and synthesizing audio in web applications. The primary paradigm
>> is of an audio routing graph, where a number of AudioNode objects are
>> connected together to define the overall audio rendering. The actual
>> processing will primarily take place in the underlying implementation
>> (typically optimized Assembly / C / C++ code), but direct script processing
>> and synthesis is also supported.
>> > > The Introduction section covers the motivation behind this
>> specification.
>> > > This API is designed to be used in conjunction with other APIs
>> and elements on the web platform, notably: XMLHttpRequest [XHR] (using the
>> responseType and response attributes). For games and interactive
>> applications, it is anticipated to be used with the canvas 2D [2dcontext]
>> and WebGL [WEBGL] 3D graphics APIs."
>> > >
>> > > "Status of this document. [...] This document was published by
>> the the Web Audio Working Group as a Candidate Recommendation. This
>> document is intended to become a W3C Recommendation. [...] A preliminary
>> implementation report is available."
>> > >
>> > > [a.6] "CanIUseWebAudio"
>> > > https://caniuse.com/#feat=audio-api
>> > >
>> > > [a.7] Audio Output Devices API
>> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation 03 October 2017
>> > > Latest published version:
>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/audio-output
>> > >
>> > > "Abstract. This document defines a set of JavaScript APIs that
>> let a Web application manage how audio is rendered on the user audio output
>> devices."
>> > >
>> > > "Status of This Document. [...] While the specification is
>> feature complete and is expected to be stable, it might evolve based on
>> implementation feedback that will be gathered as its associated test suite
>> evolves. This test suite will be used to build an implementation report of
>> the API; to go into Proposed Recommendation status, the group expects to
>> demonstrate implementation of each feature in at least two deployed
>> browsers."
>> > >
>> > > [a.8] Web MIDI API
>> > > W3C Working Draft 17 March 2015
>> > > Latest published version:
>> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/webmidi
>> > >
>> > > [a.9] Web Audio Processing: Use Cases and Requirements
>> > > W3C Working Group Note 29 January 2013
>> > > Latest published version:
>> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases
>> > > includes
>> > > 2.2 3D game with music and convincing sound effects
>> > >
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases/#x3d-game-with-music-and-convincing-sound-effects
>> > > and
>> > > 2.11 User Control of Audio
>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases/#user-control-of-audio
>> > >
>> > > [a.9] Audiobooks
>> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation 17 March 2020
>> > > Latest published version:
>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/audiobooks
>> > >
>> > > "Abstract. This specification describes the requirements for the
>> creation of audiobooks, using a profile of the Publication Manifest
>> specification."
>> > >
>> > > [a.10] HTML5.2, section 4.7.11 The audio element
>> > >
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/semantics-embedded-content.html#the-audio-element
>> > >
>> > > "An audio element represents a sound or audio stream." [...]
>> > >
>> > > [a.11] Audio Working Group
>> > > https://www.w3.org/2011/audio
>> > >
>> > > "Mission. The mission of the Audio Working Group is to add
>> advanced sound and music synthesis capabilities to the Open Web Platform."
>> > >
>> > > [a.12] Publishing Working Group
>> > > https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg
>> > >
>> > > "Mission. The mission of the Publishing Working Group is to
>> enable all publications—with all their specificities and traditions—to
>> become first-class entities on the Web. The group will provide the
>> necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform to make the combination of
>> traditional publishing and the Web complete in terms of accessibility,
>> usability, portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, and
>> reliable cross referencing."
>> > >
>> > > -----
>> > >
>> > > Q: Is "chain" the right term for an effect? We should likely use
>> same term as W3C Audio group uses.
>> > > A. TODO check/confirm.
>> > >
>> > > Within the Web Audio CR, looks like the proper term is "modular
>> routing" for composition of AudioNode source-node outputs and
>> destination-object inputs.
>> > >
>> > > [a.13] Web Audio API, Features: Modular Routing
>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#ModularRouting
>> > >
>> > > Q: Is the audio "chain" of source-filter-effect-spatialization
>> effect represented as your .mp3 file?
>> > > A: TODO explain relationship.
>> > >
>> > > Tool of interest:
>> > >
>> > > [a.14] Web Audio Inspector (Chrome plugin)
>> > > https://opensource.google/projects/audion
>> > >
>> > > "Audion (Web Audio Inspector) is a Chrome extension that adds a
>> Web Audio panel to dev tools. This panel visualizes the web audio graph in
>> real-time and lets users inspect nodes."
>> > >
>> > > Erratum: for example shown during screenshare,
>> <X3DSoundSourceNode> should be <AudioClip> (or perhaps another newer
>> node)... the object interface might be functionally correct but we need to
>> be careful about syntax, can't use abstract node types in X3D model files.
>> > >
>> > > Don and Dick plan to work during Tuesday's X3D4 Specification
>> Editors call to drop Efi's draft on top of existing X3D Sound component,
>> see if we are ready to check in, if good enough then accept the merge and
>> keep moving forward.
>> > >
>> > > Next steps for action:
>> > > a. Marking up specification changes (css for proposed/yellow,
>> deleted/orange) after including the Pull Request (PR9) in draft spec.
>> > > b. Are there any node name changes to consider? Create summary
>> list for confirmation. Use Mantis to track specific changes.
>> > > c. Describing X3DOM implementation
>> > > d. Publishing example models, evaluate implementation
>> correctness.
>> > > e. Encourage additional implementations X_iTE and other players
>> - Web3D Call for Implementations in June, perhaps?
>> > > f. demonstration video for "Learning X3D4" later when stable, a
>> draft video was created today. Thanks! Anita will publish privately with
>> X3D Working Group.
>> > > g. prepare paper for Web3D 2020 in November? we hope so.
>> > >
>> > > Of related note: Web3D Consortium has the opportunity to
>> nominate individual member(s) to participation in W3C Spatial Audio group.
>> This can really help us achieve all of our goals effectively.
>> > >
>> > > [5.1] [x3d-public] Fwd: Audio Working Group Charter Approved;
>> Call for Participation
>> > >
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-April/012060.html
>> > >
>> > > Subject to level of effort while implementing X3D4 Sound, Thanos
>> and Efi are willing to participate. Don will participate as well and lead
>> the initial engagement. Anyone else?
>> > >
>> > > Time expectation for completion: primary improvements are
>> complete and demonstrated. More incremental work will continue over a
>> number of months. Goal completion for initial examples and specification
>> is June with announcement of near-completion at SIGGRAPH in July. Working
>> together with W3C colleagues will help.
>> > >
>> > > Our plan is to check status on integrating PR9 Audio into the
>> X3D4 draft in 2 weeks, 1 May 2000, at 0900 pacific, one hour into the
>> regular X3D Working Group teleconference. (Please note that it is a bank
>> holiday in Crete!)
>> > >
>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> > >
>> > > 4. Fixing Mantis access: partially complete.
>> > >
>> > > Webmaster has provided access to Mantis for following
>> contributors:
>> > >
>> > >> On 4/7/2020 11:54 AM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>> > >>> Webmaster, please add the following members to Mantis issue
>> tracker:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Athanasios Malamos <athanasios.malamos at gmail.com <mailto:
>> athanasios.malamos at gmail.com>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Efi Lakka <efilakka at gmail.com <mailto:efilakka at gmail.com
>> >>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl <mailto:
>> flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks for all support.
>> > >
>> > > However need to add them to X3D4 project. Didn't work for me so
>> far, apparently due to lack of permissions. Have again requested webmaster
>> support.
>> > >
>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> > >
>> > > Suggested topic for next week: Cross Origin Resource Sharing
>> (CORS), following up on prior meeting topics.
>> > >
>> > > Onward we go. Have fun with X3D audio and sound! 8)
>> > >
>> > > all the best, Don
>> >
>> > all the best, Don
>> > --
>> > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>> > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>> >
>>
>> all the best, Don
>> --
>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
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