[x3d-public] higher level networking and potential for animated semantics.

Mon Dec 28 18:41:13 PST 2020

I recommend Granovetter’s Diagram for a human-mediated protocol, it
involves 3 parties instead of two, and involves authorization.

John

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 7:00 PM Christoph Valentin <
christoph.valentin at gmx.at> wrote:

> Hi John, Gina Lauren, Don
>
> Please confirm you have received this e-mail. I was encountering
> connectivity issues with my free-mail provider gmx.de lately.
>
> @John
> Thanks for your contribution at the S&P-ARK WIKI. I am considering to
> merge it with the position issue and to move them both together to the
> digits WIKI (yet to be created :-) ).
>
> @All - regarding the MU protocol story
> *May I officially suggest* to use RTP and SCTP as transport protocols and
> to define an own "application layer protocol", as we brainstormed together
> in spring 2019 and I am currently going to describe in more detail?
>
> I am going to be finished with the draft description by next weekend, but
> be AWARE: this is all phantasy, nothing has been implemented for this idea.
>
> Comments are welcome already now.
>
>
> https://github.com/christoph-v/spark/blob/master/ALP/01-ALP-over-RTP(BCP).pdf
>
> Kind regards,
> Christoph
>
> P.S.: since my employer is not interested in 3D graphics at all, I can
> guarantee to be unbiased ;-)
>
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 26. Dezember 2020 um 13:45 Uhr
> *Von:* "GL" <info at 3dnetproductions.com>
> *An:* "'John Carlson'" <yottzumm at gmail.com>, "'Don Brutzman'" <
> brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc:* "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: [x3d-public] higher level networking and potential for
> animated semantics.
>
>
>
>
>
> John, Thank you for referencing some of my work. VR business has been a
> near life time goal of mine. Like you, I have realized many years ago that
> I couldn't do it alone. I was, however, very fortunate to have a group of
> X3D developers to share my ambitions. That culminated in the current state
> of 'Office Towers' which is still, unfortunately, not anywhere near the
> goals we had originally set out (circa 2008).
>
>
>
> It is no secret that I have supported open standards for 3D on the web
> since the very beginning, 3D being a passion I had even before the web
> became a thing, back in the days of BBSs and the 'Remote Imaging Protocol'
> language for vector graphics over ASCII. I could also speak of several of
> our team members' impressive background.
>
>
>
> But even with such a good team and all the drive we had to really make a
> difference, it wasn't enough. We needed an even bigger team that would have
> included more people in accounting, graphics design, marketing, sales, etc.
> with the ability to devote significant time to the project. In other words,
> I underestimated the scope of the project while over-estimating the staying
> power of people working from the goodness of their heart.
>
>
>
> Perhaps we should've tried to seek funding, but seeing how other seemingly
> well funded endeavors failed almost consistently, this was never a decision
> I was prepared to make, and quite possibly the single most important reason
> why Office Towers remains up to this day.
>
>
>
> However, we are now in a different time. I believe the ideas you brought
> forward are good if they can be integrated into sustainable business models
> and backed by reasonable injections of venture capital. Otherwise,
> enterprises with such attributes will always have the upper hand in the
> marketplace and continue to make it difficult for others to achieve a
> meaningful presence.
>
>
>
> One thing I have learned for myself is that 'timing is everything'. Maybe
> now is the time for open standards deployment on a mass scale. Like many, I
> too long for standard 3D network protocols, and I like that you seem to be
> suggesting something in the lines of 'interaction protocols'.
>
>
>
> One last note. While HTML5 has its place, I see it more as a stepping
> stone into lower lever applications. My opinion is that HTML5 can be a
> great way to help people get their feet wet, but to truly bring forward the
> power of 3D/VR into business apps, we need to be able to tap directly into
> modern graphics card APIs. Gina Lauren
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________
>
> * * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * * *
>
>   * *  Virtual Reality -- Application Programming  * *
>
>     *   3D Net Productions  3dnetproductions.com   *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* x3d-public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] *On Behalf Of *John
> Carlson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 23, 2020 9:09 PM
> *To:* Don Brutzman
> *Cc:* X3D Graphics public mailing list
> *Subject:* [x3d-public] higher level networking and potential for
> animated semantics.
>
>
>
> Long semi-rant.   Take aways:   Let’s animate semantics.   Let’s create a
> “12”-level networking stack (would JINI be appropriate?).  Let’s create
> apps and networks that morph to counteract malware.
>
>
>
>
>
> I do think that X3D sits at what I call “The application level” of
> networking, and it has a strong position there.   I don’t know any other
> product with such a strong 3D presence.   Second life and apps selling “3D
> chat” seem to have faded.  NVIDIA’s certainly pushing towards 3D transfer
> near the application level.   As we have seen with other applications on
> the web, these application level transfers should be visible to the
> developer for debugging and verification.
>
>
>
> I can see a merging of remote work and 3D.
>
>
>
> There are several types of work, research, design, development,
> integration, quality assurance, deployment, and maintenance.   Something
> like officetowers.com might provide insights into how we might integrate
> 3D into our software work.   I am very sorry that I fumbled many times in
> creating an environment suitable for this.   Thank goodness I learned the
> lesson that I couldn’t do this all by myself.
>
>
>
> I think we need to step up from the application level of networking and
> think about more than client-server programming.   We need higher level
> protocols, perhaps human patterns or protocols for building human networks
> and systems that can survive COVID-19, 20, 21, ...  we can’t, for the sake
> of the survival of our species, give up space exploration.   But perhaps we
> need to explore more mystical paths, yet also provide a charitable path as
> well (mixed?).
>
>
>
> The HTML5 environment has progressed far enough along I think, to support
> “3D enterprises” or “3D commerce.”  Obviously everyone is trying to see how
> 3D fits into remote work.   At the same time, I think we should consider
> how virtual worlds affect our belief systems and governments.   Has anyone
> shown a simulation of belief?   How important is honesty?  Semantics is
> only the first step.   What if we could animate semantics?   This would
> likely be a very big project.   Perhaps we could make it a mobile
> distributed project.
>
>
>
> What lessons were there in Open Wonderland?
>
>
>
> I think Google’s “generic” approach is appropriate for the public.   I do
> not think we should make all organizations generic lest they fall prey to
> virus or cyberattack.
>
>
>
> Imagine if we still had the stovepipe systems of the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
> Anyone remember “Cuckoo’s Egg”?
>
>
>
> Is anyone selling virtual estate besides Second Life?
>
>
>
> Does the Internet need an “off” switch?
>
>
>
> Don’t mind me.   I live among the corn and beans.
>
>
>
> Don’t mind me, someone wrote metamindwriter on my mind today.   A new
> word!   I feel like Neale Walsch.   I’m not a writer, I’m a mathematician!
>
>
>
> I do thing we need a verification process and fingerprinting for
> cyberattack tools.
>
>
>
>
>
> I’m thinking we need applications that can morph yet maintain
> functionality—take a page out of malware playbook.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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>
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