[x3d-public] X3D Working Group minutes 3 JAN 2020: X3Dv4 progress; PointProperties and points/lines/mesh, OBJ,
Don Brutzman
brutzman at nps.edu
Fri Jan 3 10:21:36 PST 2020
[corrected copy: primary discussion on x3d-public mail list]
Agenda: review holiday progress and issues list for X3Dv4.
Attendees: Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Michalis Kamburelis, Don Brutzman.
Dick and I then continued our review with Michalis on draft specification for X3D PBR.
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0. *Happy New Year!*
Welcome back everyone. We are well on our way to finish X3Dv4. 8)
Discussion: any new implementation efforts to discuss?
a. PointProperties support in X3D Schema, DOCTYPE is up to date.
Vince updated the Mantis issue with recent dialog from mailing list.
https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1252
Lengthy dialog ensued. Here is summary:
https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1252#c2490
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Lighting and rendering of points and lines is not yet updated in draft X3Dv4 specification. We need to update the prose to match expected rendering in PBR. As of today, this spec editing is work in progress under discussion in working group teleconference.
It has been proposed for X3Dv4 specification that we make data structures, abstract node types, and (where sensible) rendering as consistent as possible between points lines and polygons.
Multiple related use cases have been suggested for point, line and polygon rendering of a single given mesh. Further multiple visualization approaches have also been posed (pixel, sprite, disk, square, etc.) and clearly no single approach should prevail.
One constant characteristic in this problem is that 3D scanners can definitely produce normal vectors along with point clouds and corresponding meshes. So we need to be able to represent those outputs in X3Dv4 data structures.
Additional expected resources are handling by Blender, MeshLab and other tools.
Once rendering prose is established, we can evaluate whether colorMode is useful or unnecessary. A number of test examples are spelled out in following thread:
[x3d-public] Allowing Normal node to accompany PointSet, then achieving well-defined rendering
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2019-December/011603.html
Summary: order of resolution is available data structures (field signatures) in corresponding node types; draft spec prose; example tests; updating draft node signatures in spec, and repeat until done.
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b. X3D Python implementation validation with current PointProperties checked, SFImage array-length checks, adding type-specific checks in Prototypes and Scripts
c. X3D Java implementation validation with current PointProperties checked, SFImage array-length checks
d. X3D Semantic Web progress continues, perhaps someday as 19775-3 specification?
https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSpecificationRelationships.png (likely in whitespace in upper-right corner)
Semantic Web RDF/OWL triples are not really an encoding and definitely not an API per se, so 19775-1 or 19775-2 ought to be augmented.
e. Discussions with IEEE 3D Body Processing, relationship with HAnim and focus on Metadata structures. CAD telcon next week. Interesting discussions, all of their metadata structures appear do-able in X3D as they get finalized. Separately William Glascoe reports that he is happy to keep sharing any model information that he has, and will try to join the call.
f. OBJ (and STL and PLY) support: prior discussions showed these could be supported in X3Dv4. All of these formats are well supported in model converters to/from X3D Shapes and each matches to geometry and appearance information (in various combinations).
Reference:
[x3d-public] X3D minutes 6 SEP 2019: DICOM discussion, overview diagram review, ISO meeting highlights, API progress, defer STL/OBJ support
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2019-September/011251.html
view3DScene (CastleGameEngine) supports OBJ and STL as allowable Inline formats.
https://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots
view3dscene, 4.2. Converting to VRML/X3D
https://castle-engine.io/view3dscene.php#section_converting
Support for the STL format for 3D models (commonly used for 3D printing)
https://castle-engine.io/wp/2017/03/29/support-for-the-stl-format-for-3d-models-commonly-used-for-3d-printing
Wondering, doesn't 3DMD have special expertise in this area? (cc: Chris)
Suggestion: if someone might write such loaders in X3DOM and X_ITE, we might add each of these formats to X3Dv4. This would be really great because it allows an author to add authoritative metadata to such models. Plus all the other benefits of X3D become available to users of such legacy model formats. If that happens, we will add spec prose to X3Dv4 documenting such support.
We also discussed how wonderful people feel when they pay for worthy capabilities. 8)
https://www.patreon.com/castleengine
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1. *X3Dv4 Submissions Review*
Major pieces of work in progress and highly mature include:
a. glTF lighting and physically based rendering, Michalis Kamburelis
b. X3D Sound Component and HTML Audio, Athanasios Malamos and Efi Lakka
c. Projective Texture Mapping (PTM), Kwan Hee Yoo
d. Many specification improvements and additions.
Key references:
[1] X3D Version 4 Overview
https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4
[2] X3Dv4 Highlights
httpss://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-highlights
[3] X3Dv4 Implementations Status
https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-implementations
[4] Draft X3Dv4 specification from SIGGRAPH, August 2019
https://www.web3d.org/news-story/x3dv4-draft-specification-available-public-now
[5] Mantis Issue Tracker (requires 2 sets of member login)
https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
You can quickly see all X3Dv4 issues (with tag V4.0) by selecting the filter "X3Dv4" within mantis.
As specified in the reference pages, our next steps of implement/evaluate over the next quarter include
- finished specification prose in github,
- addressing all mantis issues,
- proper example X3D models available for each node/field,
- validation tools confirming examples are satisfactory,
- two or more implementations (X3DOM and X_ITE, others),
- consensus by working group, approval by Web3D Consortium, submission to ISO.
Here are refined milestones from X3Dv4 Implementations Status page:
_Milestones Timeline_
* /26-31 July 2019/. Publish draft specification plus examples and implementation updates at Web3D2019/SIGGRAPH 2019 conferences.
* /16 December 2019/. Working group accepts X3Dv4 new-technology submissions, with rich capability set publicized for implementation work.
* /31 January 2020/. Specification Editors provide ISO Working Draft on github for use and confirmation by Web3D Consortium members.
* /First quarter 2020/. Implement new components in X3D players, evaluate scene examples for conformance. Publish weekly progress updates.
* /When completed/. Completed ISO Working Draft submitted to X3D Community, Web3D Consortium members, Web3D Board of Directors.
* /BoD approval/. Working Draft upgraded to Committee Draft and submitted with NWIP to ISO.
* /Sequential updates/. Specification updates for 19775-2 Scene Access Interface (SAI), file encodings (XML, ClassicVRML, JSON etc.) and language bindings (JavaScript, Java, Python), and X3D Semantic Web (possibly 19775-3).
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2. *IPR statements* - still pending, Anita is communicating with each individual involved.
Terms of membership and a requirement for contributing technology is to sign the Web3D Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) Policy asserting that no known patented technology subject to licensing is being submitted.
https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/Join%20the%20Web3D%20Consortium/Web3D_IPR.pdf
Web3D Executive Director Anita Havele has checked past records. Since many of these were signed years ago, we simply plan to ask everyone contributing to X3Dv4 specification to again assert that they are following the IPR policy.
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3. *Web3DUX Working Group Proposal*
Thanks for all review of Web3DUX Working Group Proposal and draft Charter. Dr. Feng Liu and Dr. Amela Sadagic have submitted to Web3D Board of Directors, feedback from Board of Directors review is expected soon.
[5] [x3d-public] 27 NOV 2019 - Web3DUX working group meeting minutes and Web3DUX working group proposal review
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2019-November/011530.html
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4. *December Events* include much tremendous outreach! Here they are again:
[6] Semantic Web Pro (SemWeb.Pro)
https://www.web3d.org/event/semantic-web-pro-semwebpro
[7] IITSEC 2019 Tutorial Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) 101
https://www.web3d.org/event/iitsec-2019-tutorial-distributed-interactive-simulation-dis-101
[8] Collaborative 3D Visualization for Ashore, Afloat and Expeditionary Readiness Workshop
https://www.web3d.org/event/collaborative-3d-visualization-ashore-afloat-and-expeditionary-readiness-workshop
Linked here is a cool scan image of the VT Research Center in Arlington, performed shortly before a noon demo by Qntfi. Wow!
https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/image/dated/Collaborative%203D%20Visualization%20for%20Ashore,%20Afloat%20and%20Expeditionary%20Readiness%20Workshop/Qntfi%20900%20Glebe%20Arlington%20VA.jpeg
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5. *Mantis Issues*
We have 78 issues tagged as X3Dv4.0. Current issues list attached.
https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
Our primary work today is reviewing the list and planning whether other focus topics are needed this month.
* Mantis Definitions
http://www.web3d.org/member/mantis-definitions
* Mantis Workflows
http://www.web3d.org/member/mantis-workflow
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6. *Teleconference Information*
We are using the Web3D Consortium Zoom channel, to good effect. It allows use of internet audio, screen sharing and chat with links.
We meet regularly on Fridays 0800-0930 pacific. To join the teleconference:
Join URL https://zoom.us/j/148206572 for X3D Working Group
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Additional information
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Participants will review the public minutes to confirm that no member-only information is present.
Lots of effort continues. Thanks to everyone contributing, your work is important to all of us.
Everyone else, please consider how you are helping... there are things TODO for everyone.
We will schedule several small items and one more significant Mantis issue each week, repeating until done.
Have fun with X3D!
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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