[x3d-public] Production HAnim X3D JSON seems to still work

John Carlson yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Nov 1 13:38:31 PDT 2021


I don't have any checked in code working, but the last production 
release seems to work:

https://coderextreme.net/X3DJSONLD/src/main/html/joeandjin.html

So if you have pressing work, I can get you a copy of the website.

Sorry, I don't have releases, I got caught with Ajv not working on draft 
2020-12.   See attached image for production website.

This is with X3DOM and X_ITE.

John

On 11/1/21 12:36, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>
>   * get HAnim working
>
> Fine, how about looking at the joekick model? Or, the LOA4 in the 
> current spec, Annex A
>
>   * JSON is loaded through a URL on the web page.
>
> The encoding is not the issue since a typical scene may consume x3d 
> xml x3dclassic, strings, binaries, compressed, encrypted, with 
> standard and custom subtypes.  This point is, _/if/_ the tool that 
> creates and runs the x3d scene can produce the x3d text user code in 
> canonical form, then it has to be xml or classic, right. And, ecma or 
> java. The tool can export code or data  however it wants including all 
> or parts of its internal forms, but if the current user asks for 
> canonical form or viewsource of an x3d scene, then the text must be 
> 19776-n and 19977-n and I think would actually require the xml in 
> order to get direct authortime validation.
>
> All Standards | Web3D Consortium <https://www.web3d.org/standards/all>
>
> I sent this to hanim because we are looking at the hanim models in the 
> archive. The quick way to start with hanim is to pick an loa4 because 
> joints not animated are ignored.
>
> All Good,
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 31, 2021 10:41 PM
> *To: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>; Brutzman, 
> Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
> Joe, there are some ways of loading JSON through the runtime in X3DOM 
> (which uses JSONParser.js), but typically, JSON is loaded through a 
> URL on the web page. I don't want to overburden my customers by 
> forcing them to drop into JavaScript.   There's also a different 
> interface for X_ITE as well, and also one can load JSON through a URL 
> on the web page.
>
> I think there may still be some issues with HAnim, which need to be 
> addressed (skeleton field).  I will work with you to get HAnim working 
> with X3DOM and X_ITE.  I have many, may issues with Java code 
> generated from JSON in X3DJSONLD package. Fixing those may help or 
> hinder us from accomplishing our goals.
>
> Thanks!
>
> John
>
> On 10/31/21 20:45, Joseph D Williams wrote:
>
>     Does anyone want to discuss SAI for building a scenegraph from
>     X3DJSON?  What approaches are out there?
>
>     Just wondering, or waking up, why would there be a special SAI for
>     use with json? All I thought I needed was a way to reliably
>     import/export nodes and parameters ilnto a standard scenegraph
>     using standard SAI interfaces.
>
>     Sure, using external programming interfaces to build a scene by
>     authoring or importing nodes and statements and structures is
>     possible, but regardless the scenegraph is built from nodes and
>     statements that may be emitted from and external and internal
>     scripts activated when the scene is initialized using the spec SAI.
>
>     At this point I still think of the json as a way to store some
>     data and some organized way for import into the x3d scenegraph
>     using the spec interfaces for external and external programming.
>     Bite my lip, but why think of a scenegraph built entirely for
>     json? How can I say no way, too verbose😊I don’t think there needs
>     to be a canonical form for a scene built from json, like for x3d
>     xml and x3d Classic. I think it is more appropriate to think of
>     the Json as imported into or from the scene and integrated into
>     the scenegraph to be accessible by SAI using the existing SAI with
>     the canonical user code in XML or Classic (same interfaces for both).
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Joe
>
>     *From: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
>     *Sent: *Saturday, October 30, 2021 3:52 PM
>     *To: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>; Brutzman, Donald
>     (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org
>     *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
>      1. Is there a modeling language which encompasses everything we
>         want to do with schemas and semantics?
>
>     We have a modeling language that encompasses objects and object
>     interactions in real time with specific control of the time. At
>     the most abstract is it metaontologies connected to metadata
>     connecting to real and virtual objects with interactive event
>     processing?
>
>      2. textual SysML
>
>     Is any of this usable in x3d? Ports, parts, and connectors to
>     start. If it works then writing this language could be a guide to
>     showing flows and interactions in simulations and realtime?
>
>     For me, the JSON should be standardized when it can be clearly
>     shown to be an accurate set of rules when transcoding between the
>     XML, the Classic, and the JSON, given the idea that the XML is the
>     defining schema. That is, for a given set of data, equivalent
>     results can be produced to and from equivalent data in other
>     standard forms.
>
>     Now, for the SAI, are we past just system of defining and
>     validating syntax and data structures for textual x3dscenegraphs
>     and now are looking for connects between these great achievements
>     and some way to abstractly define and validate event processing by
>     the scene object and internal and external objects composing the
>     scene from internal and external events? Then not only can be
>     validate the user code but also validate event processing without
>     actually having to run the thing.
>
>     That is where the sysML comes in, maybe, is laying out the
>     hierarchy and structures of the processes and flows in a project.
>     Like showing that these two things are things and when this thing
>     is started, then this other thing also should start, and if one
>     takes too long then this should happen. I think the x3d scengraph
>     can precisely document timing and event flows that the user has
>     defined, so a competent x3d authoring system should be able to
>     validate the syntax and structures and event flows and timing
>     within the  scenegraph at any operating point.
>
>     Joe
>
>     *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
>     *Sent: *Friday, October 29, 2021 3:18 PM
>     *To: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>;
>     x3d-public at web3d.org
>     *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
>     Note that encodings, bindings and schemas are different things,
>     except that bindings are starting to look a lot like encodings
>     now.  JSON schema has not yet achieved standardization, we are
>     using draft 2020-12, and it looks a bit like the JSON schema crew
>     are having a bit of an issue getting a standards body to endorse
>     it.   Since both glTF and X3D could make use of a JSON schema
>     standard, I recommend that either Khronos and/or Web3d consortium
>     suggest a standards body to the JSON schema folks.  Something like
>     ECMA seems like a natural fit.
>
>     Note that X3D JSON schema depends on JSON schema for vocabulary.
>
>     In the early days of X3DJSON I looked for something that would
>     convert XML schema to JSON schema, but it looked like any tool
>     were were going to use would not match what we were creating with
>     X3D JSON.  I don’t know if there’s sufficient umph in XMLSpy to do
>     it, but we might consider a post-processing tool.
>
>     I may still have code around that converts xsd to owl to vowl if
>     anyone is interested.
>
>     Another place we might place effort is a validating API for X3D
>     JSON.  I view that as a valuable task, but I don’t have the
>     personal passion or brainpower to push it through.   First things
>     first.  You probably shouldn’t write parser without a specification.
>
>     This is pretty much the 5th JSON schema draft we’ve developed for,
>     not counting all the X3D versions.
>
>     We have X3DJSONLD deployed in 2 browsers and on sourceforge.  
>     Does anyone want to discuss SAI for building a scenegraph from
>     X3DJSON?  What approaches are out there?
>
>     What’s worrying me is the lack of expressively in X3DUOM compared
>     to other schemas  (geoSystem, oneOf).   Perhaps we should convert
>     to a textual SysML?   Is there a modeling language which
>     encompasses everything we want to do with schemas and semantics?
>
>     John
>
>     Sent from my iPad
>
>         On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:10 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>         <brutzman at nps.edu> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>         
>
>         Hi Joe.  The USE pattern we were working on in the X3D JSON
>         Schema was common to all nodes, not just HAnim nodes.  So no
>         change of functionality expected.
>
>         We are always striving for consistent expressive power for all
>         the different language bindings and file encodings.
>
>         We have 3950 X3D Examples to test.  More are always welcome
>         for the archives if you think that further coverage is needed
>         of some capability.
>
>         all the best, Don
>         -- 
>         Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>         brutzman at nps.edu
>         Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA  
>          +1.831.656.2149
>         X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics
>         https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>         *From: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
>         *Sent: *Sunday, October 24, 2021 5:12 PM
>         *To: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>; Brutzman,
>         Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>         *Cc: *X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)
>         <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
>         *Subject: *RE: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
>         Hi John, Getting this to work will help. Are you looking for
>         examples to validate, beginning with a .x3d file?
>
>         If I can include USE in the HanimDisplacer pt. then I can
>         include USE as Interpolator key and value fields(?)
>
>         Including a USE in any of the HAnim… nodes Joints, Segments,
>         Sites is not going to work unless, well, I can’t really see
>         how it would work in a ‘standard’ humanoid.
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         Joe
>
>         *From: *John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>
>         *Sent: *Sunday, October 24, 2021 11:44 AM
>         *To: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>         *Cc: *X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)
>         <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
>         *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] JSON Schema meeting minutes
>
>         Don, schema is here, python seems to be working with added
>         metaschema checks.
>
>         https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/tree/master/src/main/schema
>         <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcoderextreme%2FX3DJSONLD%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fsrc%2Fmain%2Fschema&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C51fbb182092b4d5bb02c08d9974c199c%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637707175517256956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZcklHNEBEtinlpnaTacqhx6dQUY2X0MYdh7vhMIRo1M%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         Next on agenda is bpy to JSON conversion, possibly with added
>         GUI/X3D conversion tool.
>
>         John
>
>         Sent from my iPad
>
>             On Oct 18, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>             <brutzman at nps.edu> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>             
>
>             John and I reviewed his latest schema today and discussed
>             various design considerations.
>
>             His latest version, generated by a Python program reading
>             X3DUOM, is found as follows:
>
>              1. https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/schema/x3d-4.0-JSONSchema.json
>
>             Looking at the result in Firefox was helpful because that
>             has a great way to look at JSON which allowed us to
>             iconize/expand (fold/unfold) as needed.  Excerpt follows.
>
>             The result looks great.  One refinement John will handle:
>             for nodes with a USE field, no -children nodes are permitted.
>
>             Once he has the next version, I will check it into the
>             specifications directory (next to X3D XML Schema and XML
>             DOCTYPE).
>
>             At that point we are ready to begin further validation
>             efforts using multivarious tools against the many X3D
>             examples in JSON, such as
>
>              2. https://savage.nps.edu/Savage/GroundVehicles/Jeep/Jeep.json
>
>             Testing without regex patterns is good for now.  A prior
>             version had acceptable regex, so that appears to be do-able.
>
>             Having fun with X3D JSON!  8)
>
>             all the best, Don
>
>             -- 
>
>             Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>             brutzman at nps.edu
>
>             Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
>             USA    +1.831.656.2149
>
>             X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
>             faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20211101/b17eec43/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Lu0tCDDx0pExEAkb.png
Type: image/png
Size: 109265 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20211101/b17eec43/attachment-0001.png>


More information about the x3d-public mailing list