[x3d-public] X3D minutes 28 APR 2022: 3DBODY.TECH, Smart Cities, four Mantis issues reviewed, endgame for X3D4

Tue May 3 14:49:44 PDT 2022

As for emissiveColor and related edits:

1. Note that I don't have access to Mantis anymore. I receive emails
from it, but cannot login or comment there. My membership has expired
few days ago and at this point I only have free "Community
Membership".

2. The edits to UnlitMaterial look good.

3. I have some issues with edits to "11.2.2.5 Points and lines
rendering", https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/rendering.html#PointsLinesRendering
.

    Specifically I very object to sentence "Failure to include
emissive colors may result in these geometry nodes not being
rendered." there. It's very unclear, and also untrue :) I would urge
to just remove this sentence.

    There is a prose, right below, that actually makes the situation clear.

    - You don't need to specify emissive color explicitly (just like
in all X3D, we always have defaults that are used when you don't
specify something). And the points and lines will never just "not be
rendered". The question is only what (if any) lighting calculation
will be performed on lights/points.

    - The prose there says that UnlitMaterial with points and lines
works completely OK (whether you specify emissive colors or let the
defaults be used).

    - It also says that, when normals are provided, actually all
material types work as normal (which is super-useful for rendering
point clouds that approximate meshes and thus have a concept of
inside/outside).

    - I think it really covers the cases, and makes situation useful
and clearly defined for users and implementors. Please remove the
ambiguous and conflicting statement "Failure to include emissive
colors may result in these geometry nodes not being rendered." :)

Regards,
Michalis

sob., 30 kwi 2022 o 02:46 Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
<brutzman at nps.edu> napisał(a):
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> Attendees:  Anita Havele, Nicholas Polys, Don Brutzman. Regrets: Dick Puk.  We worked together for 2 hours today, minutes follow.
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> Web3D 2022 Call for Papers
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> https://www.web3d.org/news-story/web3d-2022-call-papers
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> We discussed upcoming conference this fall.
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> 13th 3DBODY.TECH Conference & Expo
> https://www.3dbody.tech
> The Premier Multidisciplinary International Conference and Exhibition on 3D Human Body Scanning and Processing Technologies
> 3DBODY.TECH Conference & Expo provides a platform of eminent professionals, entrepreneurs, academicians and researchers across the globe to present, learn and discuss the latest in 3D human body scanning and processing technologies. The multidisciplinary character of 3DBODY.TECH makes it unique and not comparable to any other meeting related to 3D body technologies.
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> Of interest is that this immediately precedes Web3D Conference.
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> ISO, INCITS H3 and W3C liaison: weekly issues check.
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> Interesting draft work is proceeding on Guidelines for Representation and Visualization of Smart Cities.
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> We are engaged in this effort and encouraging use of structured data and X3D visualization across several dozen ISO standards, motivated so that Smart Cities might have a coherent basis for information presentation and interaction.  Much lead-in work was performed at workshops and in papers at the past two Web3D Conferences.
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> Abstract. “Developers and users of any smart city will need tools to evaluate and examine options and trade-offs, and predict outcomes. Parts or all of a smart city would need to be modelled, and smart city functions need to be simulated to evaluate possible results. The modelling and simulation of smart city functions relies on representation and visualization of the data. Representation and visualization of smart cities will enable prototyping, demonstration, and analysis of smart city concepts for further development. Both physical/geometric and semantic data will need to be represented and visualized.”
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> “Representation and visualization of smart cities is a prime application for an integrated approach to leverage standardization since no single standard will address all requirements. This document provides guidelines as to what needs to be represented for smart cities and how this can be achieved. This technical specification will define categories of data associated with smart cities, and the requirements for their representation and visualization. It will describe how ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 24 standards including SEDRIS and X3D can be applied to represent and visualize urban infrastructure, services, and features. Use cases are presented that explore how these standards could be applied in smart city analysis and visualization applications.”
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> Web3D Consortium members can request a copy of this document and comment, if they like.  We will be voting prior to May 11.
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> Web3D membership has value!  Please join, if you haven’t already.
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> https://www.web3d.org/join
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> Dick and I had a big 2-week review, resolving or improving over 60 Mantis issues.   Change list for 19-28 April is attached.
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> Web3D Mantis Issue List
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
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> Several issues have been pushed to the list requesting comment.  About 50 additional issues remain… the finish line is almost visible!
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> During the call, we will work towards achieving consensus on a handful of lingering discussion issues.  All inputs are welcome.
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> X3D4 Architecture, latest
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/Architecture.html
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> We reviewed Michalis Kamburelis message
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> [x3d-public] ambientIntensity [0, 1] or unbounded [0, infinity) ?
> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2022-April/017278.html
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> regarding
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> Mantis 130: 17.2.2: Lighting Max Values
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=130
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> We agreed on rationale for his first proposed solution:
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> “1. Ignore, i.e. leave ambientIntensity in [0,1]. Just because
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>     there's no practical reason to change it.”
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> Thanks for another great response Michalis.
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> We worked to ensure that authors rendering points, lines or UnlitMaterial geometry include emissive values.
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> 1347: UnlitMaterial emissiveColor has incorrect default value? no, must remain 1 1 1, modify X3DOneSidedMaterialNode
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1347
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> Confirmed reasonableness of removing emissiveColor from X3DOneSidedMaterialNode so that no overrides are necessary for differing default values.  This is a common X3D design practice.
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> Some wording improvements for clarity:
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> 12.3.4 X3DOneSidedMaterialNode
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/shape.html#X3DOneSidedMaterialNode
> The emissiveColor field is defined in implementing nodes (albeit with differing default values). The emissiveColor and emissiveTexture fields enable an author to model "glowing" objects. This can be useful for displaying unlit (pre-lit) models (where the light energy of the room is computed explicitly), or for displaying scientific data. Application of emissive color values has an essential role when rendering points (PointSet), lines (LineSet and IndexedLineSet), and geometry rendered with unlit materials. To display an "unlit" object (whose visible color should not be modified by any light in the scene), an author can use an UnlitMaterial node.
> The emissiveTexture RGB channel is multiplied with the emissiveColor to yield the emissiveParameter in the lighting equations. Further information is provided in 11.2.2.5 Points and lines rendering.
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> Also included improvements to
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> X3D4 Architecture, 11.2.2.5 Points and lines rendering
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/rendering.html#PointsLinesRendering
> Emissive colors are primary means of rendering these nodes. The emissiveColor and fields typically control these "glowing" effects. Failure to include emissive colors may result in these geometry nodes not being rendered.
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> We discussed inclusion of markerType providing symbology for point displays, deciding against.
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> Mantis 1393: 12.4.7 PointProperties missing markerType field
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1393
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> Nicholas thinks that old markerType values are pretty ancient and not useful, further that browser builders are unlikely to implement them. Modelers want their own icon/glyph/splat for visualization and interaction.
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> Of further note is that markerType values do not have any existing implementations, not meeting our "2 implementations" requirement. There is a risk of it being counterproductive and distracting efforts in this direction.
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> Downside to removal is small: if markerType not added, then no such mechanism exists until X3D4.1 (when it is likely to get resolved fully).  Meanwhile experimentation is welcome, the "X" in X3D is Extensible.
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> Dick please confirm: we are removing.
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> Nicholas please get 1-2 Mantis issues added describing how to proceed, there may be one partial issue on glyphs already.
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> We worked further on improvements to Switch and LOD when a descendant node is bound.  Currently such behavior is undefined.
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> Mantis 1192: 07.2.2 Bindable children nodes - Undefined results if bindable node is under Switch or LOD is problematic
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1192
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> Analysis during X3D Working Group call:
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> a. Switch would keep each binding stack aligned with whichever child was active, thereby binding and unbinding nodes whenever the Switch level is modified.
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> b. LOD would have all of its child bindable nodes on the binding stack throughout, so that user experience was consistent. For example, it would make no sense for Viewpoints to get arbitrarily unbound and bound, based on range to viewer, as a user independently navigated through a scene.
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> c. LOD attempting to maintain author intent has access to all Viewpoint nodes on binding stack, and range-to-viewer LOD transitions are either flexible suggestions (browser-optimization control) or rigidly enforced (forceTransitions field is TRUE). Thus if a node is subsequently bound by user in a different inactive LOD child branch, then that binding event is honored and that LOD child branch becomes the active child branch. This binding event (and changed LOD child branch selection) takes precedence over browser range/performance considerations, and also takes precedence over whatever value is provided in forceTransitions field. (Example: selecting a room Viewpoint while in a large building model).
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> d. NavigationInfo, Background and Fog binding stacks and responses to binding events should behave identically to Viewpoint. Variations would be exceedingly complex and not understandable. Consistency means that author intent and user action always take precedence, for Switch and LOD response.
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> Spec editors work on integrating these principles as specification prose (we are close already) and report back recommended changes to X3D working group.
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> IMO this will significantly help user-sensible scalability of huge (perhaps Metaverse-scale) models using many Inline and prototype nodes, enabling predictable and performant navigation and traversal throughout.
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> Endgame plan for X3D4 Architecture specification.:
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> The next few weeks are good for final member + public review.
> We will continue resolving editorial Mantis issues, deliberately at best speed.
> Unfinished/undemonstrated functional issues are marked as X3D4.1 for future work.
> We expect to submit Draft International Specification (DIS) during last half of May, around 2-3 weeks from now.
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> Vince, please confirm this plan aligns with our Consortium bylaws and practices documents. Thanks in advance for making sure we don’t overlook any steps.
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> Anita please supervise any formal ascertainment by Board and Membership, as needed.
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> Thanks for all contributions and all progress, getting Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics version 4 finally ready to ship.
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> Have fun with X3D!   8)
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> all the best, Don
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> --
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> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu
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> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149
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> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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