[x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

Sun Oct 30 12:21:13 PDT 2022

Joe you are correct historically - but we added a third level for HAnim
motion node in X3D4.  Schema, DTD are up-to-date, examples corrected too.
Am correcting other tools and diagnostics as I find them.

*	X3D4 Architecture, Clause 26 Humanoid Animation (HAnim) component
*	Table 26.2 - Humanoid animation (HAnim) component support levels
*
https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/
components/hanim.html#t-supportLevels

As far as which approach is best - not currently an issue.  At present, am
simply trying to convert legacy BVH files into the most compliant X3D HAnim
possible.  That path can give us a LOT of content.  Still moving forward, so
far.

Building an X3D widget to follow your note and control frame-by-frame timing
of HAnimMotion advancement by TimeSensor will be interesting.

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of Joseph D
Williams
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 7:04 PM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

Brought out to public

From: Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 5:49 PM
To: John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com> ; Norbraten, Terry (CIV)
<mailto:tdnorbra at nps.edu> ; X3D Graphics public mailing list
<mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org> 
Cc: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> 
Subject: RE: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

*	The Pirouette.x3d has
*	<component level='1' name='HAnim'/>

An error.

Hanim has basically two levels - 

skeleton with segment geometry and 

skeleton with skin. 

Check me on this. 

However the piro example is Not Level 1, or any level because the skeleton
is Not a legal level of articulation. 

This skeleton may be typical in bvh archives because it is a legacy artifact
from before we had a world standard realistic skeleton. Just look at it. Is
that the way your back works? But, it is simple for simple stuffs.

If you play with this loa non-conformer, like for instance hook the
animation up to any of the more or less standard and proven stand walk run
jump twist etc. animations in the archive, then I am fairly sure you will
see unexpected gestures. And, when one or some of these work in a 'standard'
hierarchy skeleton, then add it to the "Standard" examples. 

Certainly, as you progress with authored hanim animation style, then you
will wish you had started with current vs legacy skeleton, same as possible
regret if you started with anything else than an loa4. 

However, this example certainly shows that out of any bvh collections, the
native production is probably only a very rough starting point with lots of
work left to adapt the captured motion to a usable playback character. 

So (from the Peanut Gallery), please do not run that non-conforming skeleton
as a conforming hanim character anymore unless, If you really can't get
conforming x3d hanim skeleton as playback, then please don't archive as
hanim without proper bvh skeleton Disclaimer. 

Again, just convert to use the 'standard' loa4 as the target playback, at
humanoid scale. Then, if interesting, the animations can be extracted for
use in a legal skeleton and coded for realtime rather than videotime. Please
don't just simply recreate the bvh-encoded skeleton - convert directly to
loa4 at human scale and then you can see what you really have.  

Please note one advantage of the typical video frame rate seen in these
animation thingees, is that to make a video from these your player does not
need to use interpolators since you give it the exact keyframe interval
data. 

More fun with realtime hanim. 

Best regards,

Joe

From: John Carlson <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 2:53 PM
To: Joe D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net> ; Norbraten, Terry (CIV)
<mailto:tdnorbra at nps.edu> 
Cc: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> 
Subject: Re: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

Last i heard, HAnim is acceptable.  Joe can confirm, cced.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:00 AM Norbraten, Terry (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu
<mailto:tdnorbra at nps.edu> > wrote:

One issue is that the BVH converter is not translating the correct level for
H-Anim. 

The Pirouette.x3d has

<component level='1' name='HAnim'/>

Should be

<component level='1' name='H-Anim'/>   <<< require the hyphen 

On Oct 28, 2022, at 05:59, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu
<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> > wrote:

Thank you John for excellent logs and sleuthing.

Terry, the error immediately jumping out at me is the following.  At least
one library is not getting bundled properly.

*     java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: javax.vecmath.Vector3d

Great discussion yesterday Terry, thanks.  I have created the pre-release
file site at

*
https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit%20Pre-Release%20Testing/
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourcefor
ge.net%2Fprojects%2Fx3d%2Ffiles%2FX3D-Edit%2520Pre-Release%2520Testing%2F&da
ta=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Ccfce743709d84501fcd208dab9521e76%7C6d93623
1a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638026059745002134%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000
%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5nGgyeQabvwSA5rQbsW5k1%2FOxZJgoQlYKbvhjYYhaeI%3D&reserved=0>

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu
<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> 

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman <http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman> 

From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 12:09 PM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>; Norbraten, Terry (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu <mailto:tdnorbra at nps.edu> >
Subject: Re: Trying new download--X3D-Edit 4

NPS WARNING: *external sender* verify before acting.

I have confirmed the Pirouette.bvh in archives and pirouette.bvh are the
same, essentially, just different whitespace.   I will now try to see if
X3D-Edit will load the archive version. 

Attached are the logs that are showing up in Windows 10 X3D-Edit
dev/var/log.

I haven't looked into them yet, I will now move to Linux.

If you could send me the X3d-Edit steps how to convert BVH to X_ITE and
X3DOM, that would be great.

Forward old email if necessary.

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