[x3d-public] Fw: Re: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Sun Sep 18 08:26:45 PDT 2022
That looks close.
Should the "Web APIs" be below "HTML/CSS/javascript"?
2 stacks in the W3C Browser box:
a) conventional web app
HTML/CSS/Javascript
Web APIs / webgl
W3C browser
b) WebAssembly
WebAssembly / WASM
Web APIs / webgl
W3C browser
The W3C browser delegates webgl to host operating system native
method graphics APIs, such as DirectX on windows via ANGLE PROJECT interop
layer.
WebAssembly / WASM also runs over the web apis, something that looks like a
desktop function is converted to a Web API / webgl call via interop layer.
-Doug
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 8:56 AM Christoph Valentin <
christoph.valentin at gmx.at> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry, one (hopefully) last increment: v0.6
>
> Necessary corrections:
> - Browser plugins are displayed correctly, now (imho)
> - red: application software
> - green: software with standardized or "well-known" APIs
> - blue: APIs
>
> Kind regards,
> Christoph
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 18. September 2022 um 05:14 Uhr
> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> *An:* "Doug Sanden" <gpugroup at gmail.com>, x3d-public at web3d.org, "Don
> Brutzman" <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc:* "Mehdin Masinovic" <mehdin.masinovic2 at gmail.com>, "Kevin" <
> klw71 at yahoo.com>, "Markus Sonntag" <markus.sonntag at tmo.at>
> *Betreff:* Fw: [x3d-public] Re: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software
> - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D
> Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams
> The box should be green, shouldn't it?
>
> -----------------------
> Hi Doug,
>
> I inserted another light blue box, at the left side, in order to tackle
> your comments.
>
> I called the box "Native Runtime Environment" (NRE), so I think I covered
> all the cases of JRE, Browser Plugins and WebKit/WASM, didn't I?
>
> Kind regards,
> Christoph
>
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 17:45 Uhr
> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> *An:* x3d-public at web3d.org, "Doug Sanden" <gpugroup at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* "Mehdin Masinovic" <mehdin.masinovic2 at gmail.com>, "Kevin" <
> klw71 at yahoo.com>, "Markus Sonntag" <markus.sonntag at tmo.at>
> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Fw: Re: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software
> - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D
> Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams
> Anyway, two last small improvements, before I let it go :-)
>
>
> Have a nice week
> Yours Christoph
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 16:39 Uhr
> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> *An:* "Doug Sanden" <gpugroup at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* x3d-public at web3d.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [x3d-public] Fw: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software
> - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D
> Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams
> Hi Doug,
>
> Unfortunately, I am not aware of those technologies (Chromium, Electron,
> Webkit / WASM).
> Do you think, the picture could be easily adapted to introduce them
> (without naming concrete products/projects)?
> Would it be a big problem, if I asked you to do that update? I sent the
> .odg with the e-mail. You are free to use and modify it according to your
> will (let's say according to GPL license).
>
> Kind regards,
> Christoph
>
>
> Am 17.09.22, 15:26 schrieb GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>:
>>
>> "Machine Based" could be "Native" or "Native Application"?
>> Stacks not shown:
>> - Chromium native plugin (desktop DX,OGL)
>> - Electron (Chromium+Node.js html+css: chromium webgl)
>> - Webkit / WASM (web browser hosted native code: webgl)
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 7:10 AM Christoph Valentin <
>> christoph.valentin at gmx.at> wrote:
>>
>>> Trying a beautification..............still just a suggestion / draft /
>>> "brain fart".............
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 14:14 Uhr
>>> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>>> *An:* x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> *Cc:* "Kevin" <klw71 at yahoo.com>, "Mehdin Masinovic" <
>>> mehdin.masinovic2 at gmail.com>, "Markus Sonntag" <markus.sonntag at tmo.at>
>>> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Fw: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software
>>> - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D
>>> Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams
>>> Increment v0.2......
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 13:41 Uhr
>>> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>>> *An:* x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> *Cc:* "Kevin" <klw71 at yahoo.com>, "Mehdin Masinovic" <
>>> mehdin.masinovic2 at gmail.com>, "Markus Sonntag" <markus.sonntag at tmo.at>
>>> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Fw: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software -
>>> Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D
>>> Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams
>>> Instant correction:
>>>
>>> Should replace "Hardware" by "Machine" (can be a virtual machine)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>> gesendet.
>>> Am 17.09.22, 11:21 schrieb Christoph Valentin <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi John, Hi Don,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for my late reaction.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think about this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Christoph
>>>>
>>>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 16. September 2022 um 18:05 Uhr
>>>> *Von:* "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>> *An:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>>>> *Cc:* "X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)" <
>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org>, "Don Brutzman" <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>>> *Betreff:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues,
>>>> X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams
>>>> Doug Sanden suggested we include Web Assembly (WASM). Presumably it
>>>> would be compiling an X3D Browser. I am not sure if we are going to
>>>> compile X3D applications to WASM, but it's a nice thought!
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 3:00 PM Christoph Valentin <
>>>> christoph.valentin at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for my "brain farts", but one silly idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> If X3D is ONE standard (for WebGL, OpenGL and DirectX)
>>>>> and if X3D is backwards compatible with VRML worlds,
>>>>> and if some future development (which need not carry the name "X3D")
>>>>> will be backwards compatible with X3D,
>>>>>
>>>>> then,
>>>>>
>>>>> why shouldn't we draw another contiguous block below the "X3D
>>>>> Application" and call this block
>>>>>
>>>>> "Web3D Browser (Web Based, OpenGL based, DirectX based, ......)".
>>>>>
>>>>> Kr,
>>>>> CP
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>>>> gesendet.
>>>>> Am 15.09.22, 21:22 schrieb Christoph Valentin <
>>>>> christoph.valentin at gmx.at>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) You mean?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -. HTML instead of HTML Browser
>>>>>> - concrete X3D engines instead of "X3D Engine" (why are X_ITE and
>>>>>> X3DOM listed, standalone X3D engines are not listed by name?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) One question to all:
>>>>>> The "X3D Application" (I would rather call it "Web3D Application") is
>>>>>> a contiguous block above "both worlds".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are we all on the same page, what this means? Not the provider of the
>>>>>> application, but the user of the application selects which X3D browser to
>>>>>> use?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kr,
>>>>>> Christoph
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>>>>> gesendet.
>>>>>> Am 15.09.22, 21:09 schrieb John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More likely, a combined term would be API?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 2:04 PM Christoph Valentin <
>>>>>>> christoph.valentin at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One small remark about x3d web stack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The picture uses two kinds of blocks
>>>>>>>> 1. Software entities (Browser, Engine, OS, ...)
>>>>>>>> 2. Standards (WebGL, OpenGL, ...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Couldn't we write software entities instead of standards (e.g.
>>>>>>>> WebGL is implemented by JavaScript engines)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kr
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>>>>>>> gesendet.
>>>>>>>> Am 15.09.22, 20:49 schrieb "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <
>>>>>>>> brutzman at nps.edu>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [corrected agenda follows, apologies for prior runaway email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There will be a meeting of X3D Working Group on Friday 29 July
>>>>>>>>> 2022 at 09-10 pacific. Connection information and topics follow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
>>>>>>>>> - https://zoom.us/j/148206572 Password 483805
>>>>>>>>> - https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Agenda review
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Good progress in Design Printing Scanning call led to two
>>>>>>>>> new Mantis issues for possible comment:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Mantis 1400: add Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) to
>>>>>>>>> recommended image formats for ImageTexture
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1400
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Mantis 1401: aligning X3D4 LineProperties with Quality
>>>>>>>>> Information Framework (QIF) specification
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1401
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Any further improvements to X3D-glTF comparison? Excellent
>>>>>>>>> progress so far, this is a valuable review.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Features Comparison X3D 4.0 and glTF 2.0
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0DnRtg33AuOA_aSl70L41Gq5m6TFt4t
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Reviewing Web3D Roadmap, Anita and Communications Team made
>>>>>>>>> some good edits today.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1jwY0JeYyvA8aW-e-Q06GINQkJS7b7S8jgjpJZGDjl0I/edit#slide=id.p3
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Considering further refactoring of X3D Web Stack diagrams
>>>>>>>>> (three variations attached)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Onward we go…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all the best, Don
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>>>>>>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>>>>>>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>>>>>>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing
>>>>>>>>> list x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>>>>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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