[x3d-public] X3D Working Group meeting 8 DEC 2023: proposed charter improvements
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Wed Dec 13 14:12:04 PST 2023
Can we make an effort for X3DJSAIL validation of JSON as a Web3D Consortium
Recommended Practice, and extend the CommandLine Java program for JSON
validation? I know there’s x3dvalidate and online X3DJSONLD validation.
I’m looking for a multiple goal approach. I’m not saying that there’s only
one way to skin a cat. I know I probably overhyped JSON schema in the past.
Since we probably won’t see Java in a browser soon, and Oracle is pushing
JavaScript forward through support of GraalVM, it seems like combining
JavaScript and Java, yet again, a good thing. It makes me wonder if we can
fit a JavaScript interpreter into a Java native image. Has anyone explored
WASM binaries for Java?
John
On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 11:29 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) via
x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org> wrote:
> Doug, thanks for feedback. This is close to what you said a week ago.
> Not sure if we are connecting correctly.
>
>
>
> We are currently working on a working group charter, which sets out shared
> goals and requirements. So far these seem pretty clear and well defined.
> “Good” goals means that success can be measured by demonstrated results,
> draft specification prose, and eventual consensus.
>
>
>
> If I am following your line of thinking, then topics like CALL FOR NEW
> FEATURES, PRE-DRAFT, etc. etc. sound like procedures for the group to
> follow. That might be valuable, if doable. However we are not looking at
> coordination of working-group activities right now as part of a charter.
>
>
>
> Once we have a renewed charter, if someone wants to lead such coordination
> steps as a working process for meeting policy requirements, then OK by me.
> Seems premature to lay all that out, a group should be free to flexibly
> execute as they work on achieving goals and requirements. Future
> leadership activity will no doubt be welcome by everyone.
>
>
>
> Following our first exemplar (probably Image Atlas) as a Web3D Recommended
> Practice, also must note that it won’t be me who is choreographing such
> new-node activities. I will be focused primarily on Specification
> Synchronization with Dick Puk. ISO participants recently approved my
> relieving Dick as SC24 WG6 convener, so I can confirm that a lot of updates
> to existing specifications (SAI programming language bindings and file
> encodings) are needed before any X3D 4.1 new-specification efforts are
> possible.
>
>
>
> Please advise if this makes sense to you. Good discussion topic for next
> week’s X3D Working Group meeting 22 DEC 2023 (no meeting this Friday due to
> NPS graduation). Alternatively am always happy to discuss with you
> directly if that helps us.
>
>
>
> p.s. For thoroughness, your prior note and my prior response follow.
> Please permit me to recap my earlier responses here since the points remain
> relevant.
>
>
>
> - [x3d-public] [x3d] X3D working group meeting: charter review for 2024
> -
> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2023-December/020100.html
> -
> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2023-December/020103.html
>
>
>
> First was the past/present/future synopsis, describing what works.
> Wording has been further refined as we’ve continued.
>
>
>
> Next was that the doors remain open. The x3d-public at web3d.org <mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org> mailing list will remain our primary path for
> sharing new ideas. The x3d at web3d.org <mailto:x3d at web3d.org>
> mailing list is always available as well for Web3D Consortium members who
> want to share and discuss ideas privately and confidentially.
>
>
>
> Next was the list of existing approved policy requirements that must be
> met. These are all controlled by Web3D Consortium Board of Directors.
> Membership has value!
>
>
>
> - Web3D Standards Adoption Process
> - https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process
>
>
>
> - Web3D Contribution Submission Guidelines
> - https://www.web3d.org/standards/contribution-guidelines
>
>
> - Join Web3D Consortium
> - https://www.web3d.org/join
> - “Web3D Consortium members agree to follow the rules, policies, and
> restrictions as specified in the following documents:”
>
>
>
> - By-Laws
> - Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) Policy
> - (part of Member Agreement)
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/Join%20the%20Web3D%20Consortium/Web3D_IPR.pdf
>
>
>
> So, happy days: we have a proven process that works. We have good goals
> emerging for steady (indeed compelling) progress in the coming year.
> Perhaps best, we have X3D 4.0 !! 8)
>
>
>
> I hope that all this works for you too. Again thanks for your careful
> consideration.
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 11, 2023 9:15 AM
> *To:* Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org
> >
> *Cc:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>;
> consortium at web3d.org; x3d at web3d.org
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] X3D Working Group meeting 8 DEC 2023:
> proposed charter improvements
>
>
>
> > What else do *you* need?
>
> Process improvements. Your asking 'what else do you need?' is a process
> step I haven't explicitly seen before, I think that's a good step.
>
> There could be 'CALL FOR's that notify sleepy browser / tool makers to
> wake up on a topic and contribute before some regrettable decision is baked
> into specifications. CALL FOR NEW FEATURES 2 years before next draft would
> allow browser / tool developers to compare notes in a PRE-DRAFT and list
> new features and nodes, and give 2 years for other browser / tool
> developers to implement. Then each implementation is noted on PRE-DRAFT to
> see which ones have traction. (versus last-minute scramble to find a second
> implementation or ignoring that PROCESS REQUIREMENT while writing draft
> specification).
>
>
>
> > Extensibility mechanisms for X3D can implement new capabilities
>
> I find PROTOs awkward and find it easier to implement new builtins. A CALL
> FOR PROTO DESIGN PATTERNS, EXAMPLES AND ANALYSIS OF PROTO SYSTEM
> SHORTCOMINGS, AND EXTENSIONS TO EXTENSIBILITY could expand web3d power and
> attractiveness
>
> Design patterns - I'm thinking of how to design builtin nodes so as to
> make extensibility easier. A CALL could bring forth examples of builtin
> nodes that don't map to a PROTO implementation, and analysis of those
> shortcomings may produce design patterns to improve current PROTO mechanism
> and suggest new extensibility mechanisms / extensions to extensions.
>
> -Doug Sanden
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 9:43 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) via
> x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org> wrote:
>
> Attendees Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.
>
>
>
> The X3D Working Group meets each Friday 09-1000 pacific (12-1300 eastern).
>
>
>
> -
> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fus02web.zoom.us%2Fj%2F81634670698%3Fpwd%3Da1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09&data=05%7C02%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Ca1d2156f3dee45c4e39608dbfa6cc7d1%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638379117362750494%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=OlLCBcvGDnxQfYSlFZ7CG7zfFvhKK7y66ALI%2F91Sf2I%3D&reserved=0>
> - https://zoom.us/j/148206572
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2Fj%2F148206572&data=05%7C02%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Ca1d2156f3dee45c4e39608dbfa6cc7d1%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638379117362906729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xRk2wco%2F2tYG9mRScXX9WSKAvpVB3k3WKjD%2FBZX%2Bl38%3D&reserved=0>
> Password 483805
> - https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>
>
>
> We again looked at updating the X3D Working Group Charter for 2024.
> Current charter is online at
>
>
>
> - https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d
>
>
>
> First section with suggested edits follows. None of the current charter
> words are incorrect, am looking to simplify and make clearer:
>
>
>
>
>
> Overview:
>
>
>
> *The Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics Working Group forms the core of the
> provides the core technical foundation for all working groups within the
> Web3D Consortium. It is responsible for the development of specification of
> core technologies for the X3D suite of Specifications, and the integration
> of the maximum interoperability with related specifications for non-core
> technologies, and coordinating the technical aspects of all Web3D working
> group efforts broad deployment of interactive X3D models. The **X3D
> Graphics Standards: Specification Relationships
> <https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png>**
> graphic nicely diagram illustrates these capabilities the interaction and
> relationships between the various X3D specifications.*
>
>
>
> *Interest in metaverse and augmented reality, improvements in high-quality
> audio and visual fidelity on any computer platform, and new support for
> multiple file encodings and programming languages including JSON and
> streaming binary are driving the broad deployment of interactive X3D4
> models across the Web into new domains of real-time 3D human interaction
> development of the next revision of the standard. The Working Group is
> looking for people to help with these and other technical fields in
> creating the X3D V4.0 standard.*
>
>
>
> *The wide-spread adoption of WebGL in all browsers is driving X3D into the
> future. The next generation of X3D (V4.0) will be embedded in the browser
> and support full interaction with the web page. It will include all of the
> features of X3D that are currently available plus new rendering,
> interaction, and device support all running in your browser, whether it is
> on your desktop or your phone. In addition to X3D continuing to work in
> non-browser environments.*
>
>
>
> Condensed:
>
>
>
> *The Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics Working Group provides the core
> technical foundation for all working groups within the Web3D Consortium. It
> is responsible for development of the X3D suite of specifications, maximum
> interoperability with related technologies, and coordinating the broad
> deployment of interactive X3D models. The X3D Graphics Standards:
> Specification Relationships
> <https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png>
> diagram illustrates these capabilities.*
>
>
>
> *Interest in metaverse and augmented reality, improvements in high-quality
> audio and visual fidelity on any computer platform, and new support for
> multiple file encodings and programming languages including JSON and
> streaming binary are driving the broad deployment of interactive X3D4
> models across the Web into new domains of real-time 3D human interaction.*
>
>
>
>
>
> [The next proposed sections are updates from last week’s meeting and email
> discussion.]
>
>
>
> X3D Working Group priorities for 2024 follow.
>
>
>
> 1. *Specifications Synchronization*. Update, review, implement and
> advance all corresponding X3D specifications for file encodings and
> language encodings, continuing rigorous attention to detail through Web3D
> Consortium, W3C, US INCITS H3, and ISO/IEC standards development
> organizations (SDOs).
> 2. *Implementations*. Provide a technical forum that encourages the
> greatest possible development for functionally complete X3D4 applications,
> authoring tools, and model converters such as Blender and MeshLab. Pay
> special attention to implementations using Humanoid Animation (HAnim), glTF
> model import, Web Audio API and MIDI 2.0 capabilities for integrated
> spatial auralization, projective texture mapping, HTML5 integration, XML,
> JSON/JavaScript, Java, Python, C/C++/C#, compressed binary formats, and
> additional new X3D 4.0 features.
> 3. *Publications*. Demonstrate how X3D can make 3D Graphics part of
> the modern Web by integrating with key infrastructure such as Web3D
> Conference series, Wikipedia, and other major publication resources.
> 4. *Innovation Foundation*. Show how Extensibility mechanisms for X3D
> can implement new capabilities in a standards-compatible way. Much is
> possible, model correctness is validatable, and few barriers to exploration
> exist.
> 5. *Metaverse*. Support 3D Web Interoperability and Metaverse
> Standards Register groups in the Metaverse Standards Forum (MSF),
> implementing shared use cases to provide helpful feedback on successes and
> next-step goals.
>
>
>
> These renewed priorities fit well as next steps in a quarter century of
> stable evolution using Virtual Reality Modeling Language (VRML) and X3D.
>
>
>
> - *Past as Prologue*. The X3D Working Group carefully follows Web3D
> policies and procedures, integrating much public/private comment that is
> well documented in X3D email archives and Mantis issue tracker. Both
> backwards compatibility and forwards extensibility have been carefully
> preserved throughout, enabling effective reuse of every VRML97 and X3D
> model for the past quarter century. Seventh in a specification series
> starting with VRML97, successful completion of the X3D 4.0 Architecture
> once again proves that this collaborative process is effective.
>
>
>
> - *Present, 2024*. There is much capability in X3D 4.0 already that
> deserves broader implementation and exposure in high-capability models.
> Consequently we are deliberately *not* pursuing X3D 4.1 specification
> improvements with ISO/IEC in 2024. Meanwhile we do encourage
> *Innovation* by emphasizing X3D extensibility mechanisms: Inline,
> Script, Prototype, software libraries supporting source-code
> implementations that generate X3D, etc. etc. New candidate nodes (such as *Image
> Atlas*) that rise to the level of broad usefulness can be formally
> considered as contributions to Web3D Recommended Practice.
>
>
>
> - *Future, 2025+*. Once all of the corresponding X3D specifications
> have been updated to match X3D 4.0 architecture, development of a future
> X3D 4.1 specification revision will be possible.
>
>
>
>
>
> What’s missing? What’s unclear and might be better expressed? What else
> do *you* need?
>
>
>
> All improvements are welcome, a big year awaits us…
>
>
>
> Thanks for considering the possibilities. Have fun with X3D! 8)
>
>
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
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> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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