[x3d-public] Tony’s video

Thu Aug 1 08:57:36 PDT 2024

FYI,  it appears like X3DOM requires a Shape.appearance node,

https://doc.x3dom.org/author/Shape/Shape.html

X3D does not, default is NULL.

https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/shape.html#Shape

But I’m not savvy on X3DOM docs.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 10:37 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Below
>
> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 9:25 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 8:59 AM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tony,
>>>
>>> let me share this with the list since it may be interesting to a larger
>>> group.
>>>
>>> See below.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 8:18 AM Tony Nolan <t.nolan at g3n1u5.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thank you both for your inputs. Please don't take my delay in replying
>>> as disinterest, it's just a super difficult / busy time for the next week.
>>> >
>>> > After that, I'm hoping to start modelling for real, rather than demo.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, I have some things I could never figure out.
>>> >
>>> > 1. What is the absolute minimum of code I need for an object. The 3rd
>>> party application I use has a lot of extra options.
>>>
>>> For a graphical object, this would mean a Shape node:
>>> <Shape>
>>>   <Appearance>
>>>     <Material/>
>>>    </Appearance>
>>>    <Box/>
>>> </Shape>
>>
>>
>> Ah, I was not aware that Appearance and Material are required.  I assumed
>> they could be defaulted.  I do think an X3D and Scene elements are also
>> required to put the graphical object in a scene and make it viewable, but
>> I’m not aware of the latest tech.  It’s been a while!
>>
>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > 2. I was never able to get a hyperlink within X3Dom code file to
>>> switch to a different X3Dom file.
>>>
>>> The Anchor node may be what you are looking
>>> for:
>>> https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/GroupingNodes/Anchor/nested_anchor.x3d
>>>
>>> > 3. I have 6 sections that print. In D3 and C3, I can show/  hide
>>> entire objects, but never been able get it to work in X3Dom.
>>>
>>> Most objects have a visible attribute to show/hide objects.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Andreas, I have not used that.
>>
> Hint:
> I am seeing the visible attribute on Shape, not Sphere, if you’re confused
> as I was.
>
>>
>>>
>>> > 4. I can never get the mouse to work right into the speed of zooming
>>> in and out.
>>>
>>> The '+' and '-' keys can change the speed. The default speed can be
>>> set with the NavigationInfo node:
>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/tooltips/X3dTooltips.html#NavigationInfo
>>>
>>
>> Cool, I’ll have to try that.
>>
>>>
>>> > 5. I would love to contribute and be a member of discussion groups,
>>> and application development. I really love X3Dom, but as I'm not a
>>> programmer, so I feel very unworthy to reach out to even ask questions.
>>>
>>> Thanks for giving it a try !
>>>
>>> > I'm happy to share when I get things started, and I'm about to get a
>>> international award for my life time achievements for my contributions to
>>> maths and fuzzy logic in 3d.
>>>
>>> No worries. -Andreas
>>>
>>> > Thanks for responding...
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> > Tony
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, 31 July 2024, 3:34 pm John Carlson, <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Tony,
>>> >>
>>> >> It also looks like you've nailed a Fuzzy OmniCraft.  See my effort
>>> for a metamodel for Fuzzy MineCraft:
>>> >>
>>> >> coderextreme.net/FuzzyMine.txt dating from January 2016
>>> >>
>>> >> (not a mine that I know of, just a txt file).
>>> >>
>>> >> My web hosting company has a virus scanning service I employ, but it
>>> should pop-up in your browser, no scripts involved.
>>> >>
>>> >> John
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 11:56 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Andreas, thanks for sharing.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hi Tony,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Have you seen Ted Nelson videos describing Xanadu?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I too followed the D3.js route in X3DOM, etc., culminating in this
>>> schema viewer (I tried WebVOWL, too slow):
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://coderextreme.net/x3dschema/
>>> >>>
>>> >>> (Not my code, I prepared the data)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It looks like you found the D3 orbit software as I did:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> https://youtu.be/p0fMd92mu5s
>>> >>>
>>> >>> (Not my code either, I prepared the data)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have more code for getting X3D JSON code (in general terms) into a
>>> viewable state with D3.js
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We do have ways to view X3D using x3d.py (sometimes known as
>>> X3DPSAIL), especially in Jupyter, which you are probably familiar with.  So
>>> you can write python code and display with X3DOM in Jupyter (but Jupyter
>>> may have changed to disable that).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So we could experiment with that if you like.  Resources are me,
>>> Andreas, and possibly we can bring in others.  Search the x3d-public
>>> archives.  Probably Jupyter,  mybinder and aono would be search terms.
>>> >>> Having another Jupyter person could ensure the quality of x3d.py for
>>> that purpose.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So does your model include a self-enveloping universe?  You do bring
>>> up fractals in the video.  I’ve heard the latest is fractal Big Bangs or
>>> some such.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If you want to help X3D, consider volunteering to enhance Blender
>>> X3D import/export in python.  It will test your knowledge of 3D and if you
>>> read Python code, great!  I need a lift to get past a few animation
>>> difficulties.  Plus x3d.py could use modifications to ensure the export of
>>> good models from Blender—DEF/USE ordering on output.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But your work looks more important that Blender.  Do you render X3D
>>> semantics yet?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Please check out StarcellOS (not mine):
>>> >>>
>>> >>> https://youtu.be/rJuRTZOE99g
>>> >>>
>>> >>> John
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 10:40 PM Andreas Plesch <
>>> andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Hi Tony,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thank you for your interest in x3dom and declarative 3d graphics. It
>>> >>>> was a bit hard to tell from your exuberant message how successful
>>> you
>>> >>>> were with representing an abstraction of a large knowledge system in
>>> >>>> 3d but I did find your youtube video which does show what appears to
>>> >>>> be x3dom in action here: https://youtu.be/pC-GwA3zqd8?t=209
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It is great that you found a way to construct a x3d based
>>> description
>>> >>>> of the 3d representation of the envisioned knowledge structure.
>>> Thanks
>>> >>>> for sharing that process. Let me add that visualizing abstract trees
>>> >>>> and graphs is actually not a very uncommon use case for x3d.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Please feel free to use the mailing list if you have any x3dom
>>> >>>> related, more technical questions or when you can share a nice 3d
>>> >>>> model.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Good luck with the model demonstration at the conference and please
>>> go
>>> >>>> ahead and do share your positive experience with x3dom there,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Andreas
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 3:53 PM Tony Nolan <t.nolan at g3n1u5.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > G'day.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I love the idea of making the gitlab, if it opens it up for other
>>> users, or different types of users to have access to this wonderful
>>> software as a gateway into the 3d world.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > But as an observation, it's instructions and supporting documents
>>> can be way too complex for simple programmers like me to easily find
>>> answers.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > This was my experience. I use x3dom to demonstrate my Reality of
>>> Everything model. I'm demonstrating it at an International Congress in late
>>> September, which will go out to Scientists, Leading Academics, Industry
>>> Leaders, of the advantages of using 3d perspectives to solve the world's
>>> problems.  In my keynote address I will be referencing X3Dom as the
>>> software of choice to represent the data in 3d.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > To achieve this, I had to discover D3, and then learn about X3Dom
>>> and how to insert it and make it talk to D3. Then using a translater
>>> program make my designs / basic components into Logo, and use the publish
>>> command to build the X3Dom code. They learning and striping away what you
>>> don't need to make the very basics, use a word document to hold the syntax,
>>> and Excel and Access to hold the variables values. I then mail merge this
>>> to get my code to put into my x3dom scripts.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Then I have to resize / scale that section of objects, to get the
>>> final products.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > So my end result looks like a massive galaxy with solar systems,
>>> planets, moons, etc.  Where the position of everything represents the cause
>>> and effects and the interconnectedness of everything on everything. Where
>>> you can rotate, pull up points of view, recenter nodes of interest. Each
>>> object of rings, tables, interconnecting lines, has metadata attached and
>>> is displayed into the D3 containers.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > There are things I can't do like easily have lines that are
>>> selectable, so I have to distord objects to mimic rings. A ring is in
>>> effect a radar graph, a line from x,y,z to x1,y1,z1 where I have to make it
>>> a box and find a midpoint and adjust offsets and scales, etc.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > But in the end I have a model with upto 1 million zones of
>>> galaxies with planets, to up to 4 levels of quasi fractal radar plots, etc.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > The end result is using a knowledge classification scheme, fuzzy
>>> logic, and cause and effect representation I can model how the universe
>>> interconnects.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > This is what I am demonstrating at the end of September. One day
>>> I hope to get it into my oculus quest, and be able to fly between my data
>>> nodes, and visually explore my dataverse.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > But what I do and how I got to this point is not your standard
>>> pathway or traditional usage of X3Dom. But for data scientists and
>>> intelligence officers like me, where R and Python are the norm, X3Dom
>>> offers so much more freedom in 3d data representation than what those
>>> software applications can offer.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Hence I love the idea of making X3Dom more available, but in this
>>> for dumb non programmers like me, where our industry / research lies in
>>> other disciplines can there be a sub stream for dummies like me to have
>>> simple basics and cross overs to other applications and disciplines.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Regards
>>> >>>> > Tony
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > On Tue, 30 July 2024, 1:27 pm Andreas Plesch, <
>>> andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I would like to get input and feedback on creating a x3d-related
>>> group
>>> >>>> >> under a personal gitlab account (perhaps mine).
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> The background is that I am contemplating using gitlab for
>>> static site
>>> >>>> >> hosting, for x3dom related material such as development releases,
>>> >>>> >> documentation, an x3d viewer/in browser editor or a gltf viewer.
>>> These
>>> >>>> >> materials are currently hosted under my personal github account
>>> at
>>> >>>> >> andreasplesch.github.io but I would like to move away from
>>> using that.
>>> >>>> >> Unfortunately, github only allows one account per user or
>>> organization
>>> >>>> >> so I cannot in good faith just create another github account (say
>>> >>>> >> x3dom-unoffiicial).
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Gitlab is similar to github but has more powerful project
>>> management
>>> >>>> >> features even for the free tier. Gitlab also only allows one
>>> user per
>>> >>>> >> account (I believe) but each account can have multiple roots or
>>> >>>> >> "groups" which themselves then can contain multiple repos. For
>>> >>>> >> example, I may create an x3dom-unofficial group under my
>>> account. If
>>> >>>> >> used for static website hosting, a  corresponding url would be
>>> >>>> >> x3dom-unofficial.gitlab.io from which then x3dom related
>>> materials
>>> >>>> >> could be served. "x3dom-resources" could become another group.
>>> Gitlab
>>> >>>> >> groups are collaborative with assigned owner, maintainer,
>>> developer,
>>> >>>> >> user and other roles for invited collaborators.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> It is therefore natural to expand on this idea and think about a
>>> >>>> >> larger "x3d-resources" or similar gitlab group, used as an
>>> option for
>>> >>>> >> hosting of any x3d related resource. The main benefit would
>>> perhaps be
>>> >>>> >> to have the option to share a common url for diverse resources. I
>>> >>>> >> think this could be seen as complementary to web3d hosted
>>> material, so
>>> >>>> >> maybe a "web3d-aux" group may be more appropriate. A
>>> >>>> >> x3d-resources.gitlab.io site could then host x3dom related
>>> materials
>>> >>>> >> under x3d-resources.gitlab.io/x3dom, for example. Other
>>> materials
>>> >>>> >> could be served from similar urls. gitlab also supports
>>> forwarding
>>> >>>> >> from a gitlab url to any other url. All gitlab repos can be
>>> automated
>>> >>>> >> using ci runners (on gitlab servers). This is crucial since all
>>> >>>> >> maintenance would need to be largely automatic.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> What are your thoughts on "x3d-*" groups on gitlab ? A potential
>>> >>>> >> headache due to a potential for x3d confusion or a valuable
>>> option to
>>> >>>> >> perhaps allow for larger participation ?
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Thanks for reading and apologies for the longer than anticipated
>>> message.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> -Andreas
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> --
>>> >>>> >> Andreas Plesch
>>> >>>> >> Waltham, MA 02453
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> >> X3dom-users mailing list
>>> >>>> >> X3dom-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/x3dom-users
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Andreas Plesch
>>> >>>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> X3dom-users mailing list
>>> >>>> X3dom-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/x3dom-users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andreas Plesch
>>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>>
>>
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