[x3d-public] Tony’s video

Andreas Plesch andreasplesch at gmail.com
Thu Aug 1 09:46:12 PDT 2024 

I checked by looking at this example:
https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Appearance/Appearance/unlit.x3d

This has Shapes without Appearance elements, eg. the Appearance field
is NULL and the Shapes are rendered white without shading (unlit).

This is rarely useful but strictly speaking an Appearance element is
not required, in x3d and x3dom. -Andreas

On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 11:57 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> FYI,  it appears like X3DOM requires a Shape.appearance node,
>
> https://doc.x3dom.org/author/Shape/Shape.html
>
> X3D does not, default is NULL.
>
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/shape.html#Shape
>
> But I’m not savvy on X3DOM docs.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 10:37 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Below
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 9:25 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 8:59 AM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tony,
>>>>
>>>> let me share this with the list since it may be interesting to a larger group.
>>>>
>>>> See below.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 8:18 AM Tony Nolan <t.nolan at g3n1u5.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Thank you both for your inputs. Please don't take my delay in replying as disinterest, it's just a super difficult / busy time for the next week.
>>>> >
>>>> > After that, I'm hoping to start modelling for real, rather than demo.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, I have some things I could never figure out.
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. What is the absolute minimum of code I need for an object. The 3rd party application I use has a lot of extra options.
>>>>
>>>> For a graphical object, this would mean a Shape node:
>>>> <Shape>
>>>>   <Appearance>
>>>>     <Material/>
>>>>    </Appearance>
>>>>    <Box/>
>>>> </Shape>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, I was not aware that Appearance and Material are required.  I assumed they could be defaulted.  I do think an X3D and Scene elements are also required to put the graphical object in a scene and make it viewable, but I’m not aware of the latest tech.  It’s been a while!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > 2. I was never able to get a hyperlink within X3Dom code file to switch to a different X3Dom file.
>>>>
>>>> The Anchor node may be what you are looking
>>>> for:https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/GroupingNodes/Anchor/nested_anchor.x3d
>>>>
>>>> > 3. I have 6 sections that print. In D3 and C3, I can show/  hide entire objects, but never been able get it to work in X3Dom.
>>>>
>>>> Most objects have a visible attribute to show/hide objects.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Andreas, I have not used that.
>>
>> Hint:
>> I am seeing the visible attribute on Shape, not Sphere, if you’re confused as I was.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > 4. I can never get the mouse to work right into the speed of zooming in and out.
>>>>
>>>> The '+' and '-' keys can change the speed. The default speed can be
>>>> set with the NavigationInfo node:
>>>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/tooltips/X3dTooltips.html#NavigationInfo
>>>
>>>
>>> Cool, I’ll have to try that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > 5. I would love to contribute and be a member of discussion groups, and application development. I really love X3Dom, but as I'm not a programmer, so I feel very unworthy to reach out to even ask questions.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for giving it a try !
>>>>
>>>> > I'm happy to share when I get things started, and I'm about to get a international award for my life time achievements for my contributions to maths and fuzzy logic in 3d.
>>>>
>>>> No worries. -Andreas
>>>>
>>>> > Thanks for responding...
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> > Tony
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, 31 July 2024, 3:34 pm John Carlson, <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tony,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It also looks like you've nailed a Fuzzy OmniCraft.  See my effort for a metamodel for Fuzzy MineCraft:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> coderextreme.net/FuzzyMine.txt dating from January 2016
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (not a mine that I know of, just a txt file).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My web hosting company has a virus scanning service I employ, but it should pop-up in your browser, no scripts involved.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> John
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 11:56 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Andreas, thanks for sharing.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hi Tony,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Have you seen Ted Nelson videos describing Xanadu?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I too followed the D3.js route in X3DOM, etc., culminating in this schema viewer (I tried WebVOWL, too slow):
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> http://coderextreme.net/x3dschema/
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> (Not my code, I prepared the data)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> It looks like you found the D3 orbit software as I did:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> https://youtu.be/p0fMd92mu5s
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> (Not my code either, I prepared the data)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I have more code for getting X3D JSON code (in general terms) into a viewable state with D3.js
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> We do have ways to view X3D using x3d.py (sometimes known as X3DPSAIL), especially in Jupyter, which you are probably familiar with.  So you can write python code and display with X3DOM in Jupyter (but Jupyter may have changed to disable that).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So we could experiment with that if you like.  Resources are me, Andreas, and possibly we can bring in others.  Search the x3d-public archives.  Probably Jupyter,  mybinder and aono would be search terms.
>>>> >>> Having another Jupyter person could ensure the quality of x3d.py for that purpose.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So does your model include a self-enveloping universe?  You do bring up fractals in the video.  I’ve heard the latest is fractal Big Bangs or some such.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If you want to help X3D, consider volunteering to enhance Blender X3D import/export in python.  It will test your knowledge of 3D and if you read Python code, great!  I need a lift to get past a few animation difficulties.  Plus x3d.py could use modifications to ensure the export of  good models from Blender—DEF/USE ordering on output.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But your work looks more important that Blender.  Do you render X3D semantics yet?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Please check out StarcellOS (not mine):
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> https://youtu.be/rJuRTZOE99g
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> John
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 10:40 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Hi Tony,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Thank you for your interest in x3dom and declarative 3d graphics. It
>>>> >>>> was a bit hard to tell from your exuberant message how successful you
>>>> >>>> were with representing an abstraction of a large knowledge system in
>>>> >>>> 3d but I did find your youtube video which does show what appears to
>>>> >>>> be x3dom in action here: https://youtu.be/pC-GwA3zqd8?t=209
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> It is great that you found a way to construct a x3d based description
>>>> >>>> of the 3d representation of the envisioned knowledge structure. Thanks
>>>> >>>> for sharing that process. Let me add that visualizing abstract trees
>>>> >>>> and graphs is actually not a very uncommon use case for x3d.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Please feel free to use the mailing list if you have any x3dom
>>>> >>>> related, more technical questions or when you can share a nice 3d
>>>> >>>> model.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Good luck with the model demonstration at the conference and please go
>>>> >>>> ahead and do share your positive experience with x3dom there,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Andreas
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 3:53 PM Tony Nolan <t.nolan at g3n1u5.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > G'day.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > I love the idea of making the gitlab, if it opens it up for other users, or different types of users to have access to this wonderful software as a gateway into the 3d world.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > But as an observation, it's instructions and supporting documents can be way too complex for simple programmers like me to easily find answers.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > This was my experience. I use x3dom to demonstrate my Reality of Everything model. I'm demonstrating it at an International Congress in late September, which will go out to Scientists, Leading Academics, Industry Leaders, of the advantages of using 3d perspectives to solve the world's problems.  In my keynote address I will be referencing X3Dom as the software of choice to represent the data in 3d.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > To achieve this, I had to discover D3, and then learn about X3Dom and how to insert it and make it talk to D3. Then using a translater program make my designs / basic components into Logo, and use the publish command to build the X3Dom code. They learning and striping away what you don't need to make the very basics, use a word document to hold the syntax, and Excel and Access to hold the variables values. I then mail merge this to get my code to put into my x3dom scripts.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > Then I have to resize / scale that section of objects, to get the final products.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > So my end result looks like a massive galaxy with solar systems, planets, moons, etc.  Where the position of everything represents the cause and effects and the interconnectedness of everything on everything. Where you can rotate, pull up points of view, recenter nodes of interest. Each object of rings, tables, interconnecting lines, has metadata attached and is displayed into the D3 containers.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > There are things I can't do like easily have lines that are selectable, so I have to distord objects to mimic rings. A ring is in effect a radar graph, a line from x,y,z to x1,y1,z1 where I have to make it a box and find a midpoint and adjust offsets and scales, etc.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > But in the end I have a model with upto 1 million zones of galaxies with planets, to up to 4 levels of quasi fractal radar plots, etc.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > The end result is using a knowledge classification scheme, fuzzy logic, and cause and effect representation I can model how the universe interconnects.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > This is what I am demonstrating at the end of September. One day I hope to get it into my oculus quest, and be able to fly between my data nodes, and visually explore my dataverse.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > But what I do and how I got to this point is not your standard pathway or traditional usage of X3Dom. But for data scientists and intelligence officers like me, where R and Python are the norm, X3Dom offers so much more freedom in 3d data representation than what those software applications can offer.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > Hence I love the idea of making X3Dom more available, but in this for dumb non programmers like me, where our industry / research lies in other disciplines can there be a sub stream for dummies like me to have simple basics and cross overs to other applications and disciplines.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > Regards
>>>> >>>> > Tony
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > On Tue, 30 July 2024, 1:27 pm Andreas Plesch, <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> I would like to get input and feedback on creating a x3d-related group
>>>> >>>> >> under a personal gitlab account (perhaps mine).
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> The background is that I am contemplating using gitlab for static site
>>>> >>>> >> hosting, for x3dom related material such as development releases,
>>>> >>>> >> documentation, an x3d viewer/in browser editor or a gltf viewer. These
>>>> >>>> >> materials are currently hosted under my personal github account at
>>>> >>>> >> andreasplesch.github.io but I would like to move away from using that.
>>>> >>>> >> Unfortunately, github only allows one account per user or organization
>>>> >>>> >> so I cannot in good faith just create another github account (say
>>>> >>>> >> x3dom-unoffiicial).
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> Gitlab is similar to github but has more powerful project management
>>>> >>>> >> features even for the free tier. Gitlab also only allows one user per
>>>> >>>> >> account (I believe) but each account can have multiple roots or
>>>> >>>> >> "groups" which themselves then can contain multiple repos. For
>>>> >>>> >> example, I may create an x3dom-unofficial group under my account. If
>>>> >>>> >> used for static website hosting, a  corresponding url would be
>>>> >>>> >> x3dom-unofficial.gitlab.io from which then x3dom related materials
>>>> >>>> >> could be served. "x3dom-resources" could become another group. Gitlab
>>>> >>>> >> groups are collaborative with assigned owner, maintainer, developer,
>>>> >>>> >> user and other roles for invited collaborators.
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> It is therefore natural to expand on this idea and think about a
>>>> >>>> >> larger "x3d-resources" or similar gitlab group, used as an option for
>>>> >>>> >> hosting of any x3d related resource. The main benefit would perhaps be
>>>> >>>> >> to have the option to share a common url for diverse resources. I
>>>> >>>> >> think this could be seen as complementary to web3d hosted material, so
>>>> >>>> >> maybe a "web3d-aux" group may be more appropriate. A
>>>> >>>> >> x3d-resources.gitlab.io site could then host x3dom related materials
>>>> >>>> >> under x3d-resources.gitlab.io/x3dom, for example. Other materials
>>>> >>>> >> could be served from similar urls. gitlab also supports forwarding
>>>> >>>> >> from a gitlab url to any other url. All gitlab repos can be automated
>>>> >>>> >> using ci runners (on gitlab servers). This is crucial since all
>>>> >>>> >> maintenance would need to be largely automatic.
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> What are your thoughts on "x3d-*" groups on gitlab ? A potential
>>>> >>>> >> headache due to a potential for x3d confusion or a valuable option to
>>>> >>>> >> perhaps allow for larger participation ?
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> Thanks for reading and apologies for the longer than anticipated message.
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> -Andreas
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> --
>>>> >>>> >> Andreas Plesch
>>>> >>>> >> Waltham, MA 02453
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>> >> X3dom-users mailing list
>>>> >>>> >> X3dom-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/x3dom-users
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> Andreas Plesch
>>>> >>>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>> X3dom-users mailing list
>>>> >>>> X3dom-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/x3dom-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andreas Plesch
>>>> Waltham, MA 02453



-- 
Andreas Plesch
Waltham, MA 02453

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