[x3d-public] MIDI suggestions

Fri Aug 23 07:54:43 PDT 2024

OK very good, thanks for information Doug.

Meanwhile, am hoping to improve the MIDI files that we have, and potentially add more examples.  Wondering if there is a good open-source software tool for MIDI?

I looked again within Audacity, which is an excellent open source tool.  It does support MIDI but does not seem to give any information about what type of MIDI file is loaded or exported.  Some vulnerabilities are noted in NIST National Vulnerability Database but they are all on very old versions, so it seems trustworthy.  Linked for installation and easy use within X3D-Edit as a helper application.

  *
https://www.audacityteam.org
  *
https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/search/results?form_type=Basic&results_type=overview&search_type=all&query=Audacity

Previous I was using MuseScore every now and then.  However an upgrade earlier this year integrated some kind of p2p streaming activity (aka Muse Hub) that triggered a variety of security warnings, so I stopped using it.  However, I now see that they offer a version without Muse Hub, will try again.

  *   https://musescore.org/en
  *   https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/search/results?form_type=Basic&results_type=overview&search_type=all&query=musescore

The midieditor looks possible but it is free software (hobbyist) and not open source, so less appealing.  Also does not have an https server, which is a red flag.

  *   http://www.midieditor.org

Am hoping to test binary and text-based MIDI (and possibly MIDI version 1 and 2) using different versions of the example file.

Wondering if there are any open-source audio tools you can recommend that support

  *
Identifying MIDI version within a file,
  *
Exporting between different MIDI formats

all the best, Don

--

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

________________________________
From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> on behalf of GPU Group via x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2024 7:18 AM
Cc: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>; Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] MIDI suggestions

Don,
MIDI via PROTOs > working in C I used threads and queues between the MIDI port and the x3d rendering thread, and I don't know how to do that with PROTOs. But it might be different with Web MIDI API. So one idea is to wait until/in-case one of the web based x3d browsers implements a MIDI component using PROTOs, and see how they did that, and then the native browsers can adapt to that.
-Doug

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 6:35 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote:
Understood.  The work you describe regarding MIDI nodes looks quite involved.  Possible component extension if someone did the work involved.  Implementing as Prototype library using Script nodes might work.  Writing extensions for X_ITE or X3DOM might work.  In each case that would be proof-of-capability and maybe not a path to wide availability.

I think it is doubtful that MIDI editing would be accepted as a high-value use case and recommended practice for X3D 4.1, which might take an undetermined length of time anyway.  Seems like a long, unlikely and unsatisfying path to pursue.  Nevertheless possible.

I looked in Audacity briefly for "saving as" MIDI ASCII but didn't find it.  Perhaps I missed it or another tool is useful.

If we do have a text-base example MIDI file archived, that might encourage use of other online editors.  Note how X_ITE is already able to show XML, ClassicVRML and JSON encodings equivalently (see links in upper-right corner).

  *
X_ITE Playground Editor
  *
X3D Example Archives: X3D4WA, X3D for Web Authors, Chapter 05 Appearance Material Textures, Pixel Texture Snowman
  *
https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowman.x3d

  *
... but has error:  Couldn't load URL 'https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/frosty2.mid'.EncodingError: Failed to execute 'decodeAudioData' on 'BaseAudioContext': Unable to decode audio data

  *
X3DOM similarly seems to have a problem paying the midi file
  *
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowmanX3dom.xhtml

  *
Nothing heard using latest FreeWrl
  *
Nothing heard using current Castle Model Viewer

Audacity plays the .midi file OK.  Might there be a problem with the file?

Regarding sound-related implementations, am hoping we get more examples and start showing compelling implementation support for the Web Audio API nodes that are already added to the X3D 4.0 Sound Component.  Huge but unrealized potential is already available to us...

  *
 Spatial Sound in X3DOM with Web Audio API
  *
https://medialab.hmu.gr/minipages/x3domAudio

  *
X3D Example Archives: X3D4AM, X3D for Advanced Modeling, Audio Spatial Sound
  *   https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForAdvancedModeling/AudioSpatialSound/

Again thanks for pushing on the limits, hope these potential paths forward can help us focus further progress.

all the best, Don

--

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

________________________________
From: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com<mailto:gpugroup at gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2024 11:20 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>>
Cc: Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org<mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] MIDI suggestions
 .
Don,
The current Sound component doesn't have a way to look at each MIDI note as an event, nor to create MIDI notes with events during scene execution.
See this proposed separate 43 MIDI Component which allows that.
https://freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/43_MIDI/
freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/43_MIDI/NOTES_midi.txt<https://freewrl.sourceforge.io/tests/43_MIDI/NOTES_midi.txt>
-Doug

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 11:16 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote:
Doug, thanks for your suggestions.

Regarding MIDI support:

  *
X3D 4.0 Architecture, 16 Sound component, 16.4.2 AudioClip
  *
https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/sound.html#AudioClip
  *
The url field specifies the URL from which the sound file is loaded. 16.2.6 Audio encoding formats<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/sound.html#AudioEncodingFormats> describes required and recommended file format support. 9.2.1 URLs, URNs and URIs<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/networking.html#URLs> contains details on the url field.

  *
X3D 4.0 Architecture, 16 Sound component, 16.2.6 Audio encoding formats
  *
https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/components/sound.html#AudioEncodingFormats

X3D browsers shall support at least the wavefile format in uncompressed PCM format (see [WAV]<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/bibliography.html#WAV>).
It is recommended that X3D browsers support the MIDI file type 1 sound format (see [MIDI 1.0]<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#MIDI-1>). MIDI files are presumed to use the General MIDI patch set.
X3D browser support is also recommended for MIDI 2.0 (see [MIDI 2.0]<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#MIDI-2> and Web MIDI API (see [W3C-WebMIDI]<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#W3C-WebMIDI>).
It is also recommended that X3D browsers support the following formats:

  *   Format=MP3, container=MP3, compressed (see [I11172-1]<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#I11172_1>).
  *   Format=AAC, container=MP4 (see [14496-14]<https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS/Part01/references.html#14496_14>).

Example X3Dscene with MIDI content:

  *
X3D Example Archives: X3D4WA, X3D for Web Authors, Chapter 05 Appearance Material Textures, Pixel Texture Snowman
  *
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowmanIndex.html
  *
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/PixelTextureSnowman.x3d
  *
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter05AppearanceMaterialTextures/frosty2.mid

Regarding MIDI content in ASCII form, it is certainly not disallowed in the X3D specification.   Might you please send some references and an example?  Perhaps an ASCII plaintext version of frosty2.

Have fun with X3D and MIDI!  8)

all the best, Don

--

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

________________________________
From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org<mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org>> on behalf of GPU Group via x3d-public <x3d-public at web3d.org<mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2024 3:14 PM
To: Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics public discussion <x3d-public at web3d.org<mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>>
Cc: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com<mailto:gpugroup at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Web3D 2024: HAnim Music Animation competition - Win cash prizes!

MIDI > at least one web3d browser supports MIDI with nodes that give events, which could be used to synchronize HAnim motions to music tones / beats, or vice versa.
Something missing from prior work: a node that holds MIDI directly in ASCII format, for easy tinkering in X3D scene file.
-Doug
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