[x3d-public] HAnim Features Points, 1-120 for your review

Tue Mar 19 18:59:55 PDT 2024

> It has been noted that DiamondManLOA2 has 65 feature points.  Why are there not all 120?  All the feature points are not listed in the DiamondManLOA2 may be because that the skin used may not have that feature.   Limited facial features, etc. 

Well, the last time we updated Annex A I went to asleep or something and so Annex A dimensions for added joints and added feature points and the user code never really got updated to latest. The Annex A should be updated to include all sites and the joint tables updated to include all appropriate joints. The loa0, 1, 2, and 3 user code for skeletons are good with joints but missing sites, the loa4 skeleton user code is incomplete for new joints added in V2 and also short on sites. 
None of the Annex A examples currently use a skin. Since (recommended) feature points are same for any loa, the same skin could work for all. 

Thanks for All,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol McDonald <cemd2 at comcast.net>
Sent: Mar 19, 2024 2:32 PM
To: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>, Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>, Katy Schildmeyer KS APPAREL DESIGN <katy at ksappareldesign.com>
Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: Re: HAnim Features Points, 1-120 for your review

Okay, reviewing further - the actual linkage of the feature point is under the  translation for the feature point is under the joint and segment, just like the skin.  The actual translation is the x,y,z coordinate either on a mesh face on the skin or a vertex.  So if you want the "translation" for the new feature points - my question remains - are the translations based on the humanoid animation of "Joe" or hopefully not "Box Man"?  What is the skin that was used for the translations?  What is the native file?  Can that be saved to an OBJ so that I can get it into Rhino? 

It has been noted that DiamondManLOA2 has 65 feature points.  Why are there not all 120?  All the feature points are not listed in the DiamondManLOA2 may be because that the skin used may not have that feature.   Limited facial features, etc. 

Looking under DiamondManLOA2, the translation are located under that joint. 

 <HAnimJoint DEF='hanim_sacroiliac' center='0.0 0.9149 0.0016' name='sacroiliac'>
<HAnimSegment DEF='hanim_pelvis' name='pelvis'>
<Transform DEF='sacroiliacPos' translation='0.0 0.9149 0.0016'>
 <HAnimSite DEF='hanim_r_iliocristale_pt' name='r_iliocristale_pt' translation='-0.1525 1.0628 0.0035'>

Thanks 

Carol 
On 03/16/2024 8:57 AM PDT Carol McDonald <cemd2 at comcast.net> wrote:

Here is the attachment on the first 11 feature points.  The site for the translations do not have points numbered so I added in that column.  As you can see from this attachment - the feature points are independent of the joints as it does not matter which LOA that you choose. 

But questions - during the animation - do the feature points move?  How are they bound to the mesh and skin?  If the skin (mesh) breaks during a movement - what happens to the feature point? 

Thanks 

Carol 
On 03/16/2024 7:08 AM PDT Carol McDonald <cemd2 at comcast.net> wrote:

I have been looking into this.  And I am agreeing with John's assessment. I will somehow need to get everything into Rhino for visualization and coding. 

>From John on March 14th. 
I am thinking that humanoid_root and all other joint centers are relative to the LCS (local coordinate system) of the humanoid, which is 0, 0, 0 relative to any transforms outside the humanoid.
That's my best guess right now.

What is not noted on the General is the exact file or model for which these translations were built for.  This means that the list of the translations on the website only valid for the humanoid model that they were obtained for, the distance of that model from the origin and are not appropriate for Gramps or any other model. 

This means that for every joint center and every translation, it would be good to have reason for why is it located where it is. 

https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#General

https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA2DefaultSiteTranslations
https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA3DefaultSiteTranslations
https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA4DefaultSiteTranslations

Is this the model for which the translations are built for?  Can someone send me the proper link? Is this it?  I will see if I can import it into Rhino 8. 
HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d 

Back to updating every 120 points currently listed as to recommendations of how to locate it and adding the additional feature points that I have requested. 
https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/FeaturePoints.html#FeaturePointsOnTheHumanBody

Carol 

On 03/16/2024 4:23 AM PDT John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:38 AM Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net (mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net)> wrote:
> You can make the skin opaque to see that I'm really grabbing this from a HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d example, just my own incantation of scripts to draw the humanoid geometry.  I'll be checking those in soon

Great John,
I will check this out soon. 
Any ideas for the 'virtual' feature points? 
All Fine, 
Joe

Joe, do you mean user drawn, not in current standard? User defined points?  I have scripts for sites to place coordinates, but I don't have  a way to get them into the hierarchy yet, so...

John 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com (mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com)>
Sent: Mar 15, 2024 12:11 AM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org (mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org)>, Carol McDonald <cemd2 at comcast.net (mailto:cemd2 at comcast.net)>, Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net (mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net)>
Subject: Re: HAnim Features Points, 1-120 for your review

Carol, I'm discovering it makes a difference where you put the Transform in the HAnimSegment as to whether to reuse the center.  I don't have something that doesn't put out warnings yet, or takes the Sites away from the Joints.  Hmm! 
My best Humanoid so far is Humanoid4J.x3d.

I'm going to get some sleep.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 12:53 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com (mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com)> wrote:
Good use of Billboard for annotated feature points 
Please consider this a contribution to the Web3DConsortium examples.  I release my copyright and licensing privileges, and give them copyright and licensing under the normal X3D resources example.

Thanks to Joe and Don for good examples to draw from!

No, I don't have any metadata yet.  Let's set up a time and figure out who all contributed.

You can make the skin opaque to see that I'm really grabbing this from a HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d example, just my own incantation of scripts to draw the humanoid geometry.  I'll be checking those in soon.

John

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