[X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)
Christoph Valentin
christoph.valentin at gmx.at
Sun May 2 02:50:46 PDT 2010
Thanks for the technical hints.
And yes: if I were important, I would second your statement that a
standardized protocol/interface between client and server would be an asset
for X3D.
However, commercial companies usually do
- what the customer wants
- what is the cheapest
(in this order)
And as long as the customers (i.e. content authors) do not insist in a
standardized protocol, there won't be a standardized protocol.
it's that easy, imho. Please correct me, if I'm not aware of some details
of the X3D history, since I'm more or less a newbie.
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sun, 02 May 2010 02:05:20 -0400
> Von: "Russ Kinter" <pyth7 at verizon.net>
> An: "'Christoph Valentin'" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> CC: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Betreff: RE: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)
>
>
> From: Christoph
> Valentin [mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 6:37 AM
> To: pyth7 at verizon.net
> Cc: X3D-Public at web3d.org
> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)
>
> > As far as
> MU goes, SAI/EAI holds the most promise for low cost
>
> > (i.e. Free as in free client AND
> server)
>
>
> Unfortunately, I like the Network Sensor concept (due to its
> generality), and don't forget:
>
>
> * An X3D viewer is not required to support Java (either Internal in a
> Script node or external)
>
>
> * An X3D viewer is required to support ECMAScript in the Script node -
> if the viewer supports the Script node
> * An X3D viewer is not required to support external SAI with ECMAScript
> (I copied these sentences from another forum, Author: Leonard Daly)
>
> When I use network sensors, it's possible to implement rather complex MU
> animations/simulations just using ECMAScript, without being dependent on
> the SAI/EAI.
>
> [Russ Kinter] It’s called cascading.
>
> One event from the network has the capability of
> triggering many animations..
>
> EAI when it is done properly is exactly the same way.
>
>
> You instance a NetworkSensor Node and I instance a
> proto that is acquired by the Java. In both our cases it is the ECMA
> script that does most of the work in terms of animations.
>
> You are dependent on the X3D browser implementing
> NetworkSensor Node to communicate to the server and I am dependent on a
> Java Socket and thread. We are both dependent on some extra feature to
> talk to the network.
>
> The difference is with EAI can do far more - I can
> communicate with other Java programs.
>
> For example since Instant Player won’t play mp3
> files I found an open-source Java program that can and after writing a
> faux-Sound Node I can play mp3 and other audio formats not supported by
> any X3D browser in a world.
>
> As far as the “mandatory” issue goes, I
> don’t think the NetworkSensor is mandatory either at least when I
> search
>
> http://www.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetype/
>
>
> it can’t be found. So I suggest both means of
> talking to the network are optional.
>
> Don’t get me wrong the NetworkSensor Node is -or
> rather- was a great idea until its protocol was allowed to be made
> proprietary. God forbid profits should be missed out on because some
> amateurs could possibly write an MU system using the NetworkSensor Node.
> For me the whole proprietary protocol issue makes a sham out of claims of
> the spec being open-source.
>
> Riddle me this: What is part of an open-source spec but
> isn’t itself open-source?
>
> Russ Kinter
>
>
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:10:05 -0500 (CDT)
> > Von: pyth7 at verizon.net
> > An: christoph.valentin at gmx.at
> > CC: X3D-Public at web3d.org
> > Betreff: Re: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)
> >
> > >is there something else in the standard,
> > that can be used for multiuser mode (besides SAI/EAI)?
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge no -not
> > as a standard per se.
> >
> > However some people have done
> > interesting MU stuff with php:
> >
> > http://www.x-robot.com/
> > http://3dchat.3d-check.com/
> >
> >
> > Paul Aslin has something similar as well -it may be the 3dchat
> > link.
> >
> >
> > As far as MU goes, SAI/EAI holds the most promise for low cost
> >
> >
> > (i.e. Free as in free client AND
> > server)
> >
> >
> > Russ Kinter
> >
> >
> >
> > Apr 30, 2010 04:23:34 PM,
> > christoph.valentin at gmx.at wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Dear all
> > >
> > > I did some private (hobby) studies regarding multiuser mode and
> > > rather complex scenes (combining content from different authors) and
> > > would like to ask, if you could second my experiences,
> > >
> > > or if somebody disagrees (the whole project is documented at
> > > http://simulrr.wordpress.com).
> > >
> > > See below
> > >
> > > I am aware of Network Sensor and DIS, is there something else in the
> > > standard, that can be used for multiuser mode (besides SAI/EAI)?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Christoph
> > >
> > > BS Contact
> > >
> > > Supported from the beginning of the project.
> > > Multi-user-mode with and BS Collaborate definitively possible.
> > >
> > > Octaga
> > >
> > > Supported from spring 2009 onwards. Multi-user-mode
> > > with theoretically possible, but no free test version of
> > > collaboration server available -> multi-user-mode cannot be supported
> > > currently.
> > >
> > > Instant Reality
> > >
> > > First trials positive. Yet unknown, whether Network
> > > Sensor node is supported or not. According to X3D-public mailing list
> > > an open source multi-user-framework exists (to be analysed).
> > >
> > > Free WRL
> > >
> > > First trials show, that is not supported →
> > > postponed.
> > >
> > > Xj3D
> > >
> > > First trials show, that Xj3D has problems with
> > > nested prototypes → postponed.
> > >
> > > Vivaty
> > >
> > > Not available AFAIK
> > >
> > > SwirlX3D
> > >
> > > First trials not un-positive, but show up problems
> > > with viewpoints in prototypes, proximity sensors in prototypes etc.
> > > → postponed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
>
>
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