[x3d-public] Invalid geoSystem values in X3D Resources BasicGeospatial examples.

Leonard Daly Leonard.Daly at realism.com
Sun May 13 15:59:40 PDT 2018


On 5/13/2018 9:58 AM, John Carlson wrote:
>
> You may want to resubmit your 3TM and Planet changes to Mantis.  I 
> searched for 3TM and Planet in Mantis (All Projects) and got nothing  
> significant back.
>
> However, I was denied access to:
>
> http://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/1671
>

This is the Web3D Specification comment form. 1671 is the submission ID. 
Only a few people (Anita, myself) have access to the spec comment 
submissions. All submissions are emailed to the X3D WG list and appear 
there.


> Why?
>
> and there’s:
>
> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1215
>

For reference this issue is titled as "25.2.3 Specifying a spatial 
reference frame - Inaccurate UTM example" and is listed as public.


Leonard Daly




> Not that I want to imagine writing schema for such a thing…that’s why 
> I hope to get geoSystem into more reasonable shape in the Unified 
> Object Model (we need volunteers, I think) before trying to do it in 
> schema.
>
> John
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *GPU Group <mailto:gpugroup at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:16 AM
> *To: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] Invalid geoSystem values in X3D Resources 
> BasicGeospatial examples.
>
> I think N should be OK, just as you say a redundant default.. I 
> proposed several new things in the geoSystem field, submitted to spec 
> comments a few months ago, so I hope your processor works on the new 
> things if ever adopted.
>
> -Doug
>
> R,A,B,F,IF - ways to drectly specifiy the shape of the ellipsoid so 
> other planet shapes and sizes could be modeled
>
> 3TM - similar to UTM (except 3degree zones, no false northing or 
> easting, different central meridian scale factor .9999)
>
> ...
>
> I also proposed a Planet node - allows multiple planets in one scene
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 6:14 AM, John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com 
> <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     The object model is expressive enough to list conforming values,
>     yet accept others, but as far as I know (I may be wrong here), it
>     is not expressive enough to express supported geoSystem values. 
>      This is a problem.   How do we resolve it, and should we, if we
>     are accepting other values?   Is it resolved in X3DJSAIL?  Should
>     I get rid of Roy's JSON subschema for geoSystem?
>
>     John
>
>     On Sun, May 13, 2018, 7:43 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com
>     <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         I believe the purpose of schema is to support minimally
>         acceptable files.   It should flag files which are
>         questionable.   If a file can be brought into conformance
>         easily, shouldn't it be?
>
>         Yes, you should be able to ignore the results of the schema
>         validation...at your own risk.
>
>         What is the purpose of the X3D resources examples, but to show
>         a good example practice?  Or are we testing tools to make sure
>         certain values are acceptable?   If that's the case, then the
>         schema should be updated for ALL versions.
>
>         John
>
>         On Sun, May 13, 2018, 7:31 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com
>         <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             Then the version of the document should be upgraded to 4.0
>             or above, and the corresponding schema updated.   I can
>             upgrade the schema for all versions, since it is hard
>             coded into the schema generator.   But really we need
>             support from the object model if possible.   Right now, I
>             have to explicitly allow it for all versions, since I use
>             stdin/stdout instead of files.  Does the unified object
>             model specify a version # in its contents? When the
>             unified object model supports "N" in a usable fashion,
>             then I can code something into the schema, or delete the
>             requirement to check geoSystem.
>
>             Thanks, away from computer presently, or I would check.
>
>             I don't see why Roy went to all the effort to create a
>             schema, if we are going to ignore it?
>
>             This applies in many areas...if we merely have supported
>             values, yet others must be accepted, why is there a standard?
>
>             I don't believe it's ambiguous in this case of X3D.   A
>             missing "N" means Northern Hemisphere.
>
>             John
>
>             On Sun, May 13, 2018, 12:46 AM Andreas Plesch
>             <andreasplesch at gmail.com <mailto:andreasplesch at gmail.com>>
>             wrote:
>
>                 http://www.web3d.org/specifications/19775-1/V3.2/Part01/components/geodata.html#Specifyingaspatialreference
>                 <http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.2/Part01/components/geodata.html#Specifyingaspatialreference>
>
>                 lists the supported strings for the geoSystem MFString
>                 field.
>
>                 The prose choosing 'supported' over 'legal' or
>                 'conforming' could be taken to mean that other than
>                 listed strings may be allowed to be supported as well
>                 by some browsers.
>
>                 However, previous discussions indicate that schemas
>                 are not sufficiently expressive to describe unknown
>                 but conforming string values.
>
>                 One resolution was to explicitly allow 'N' in upcoming
>                 X3D version, and perhaps silently allow it for 3.3.
>
>                 Outside of X3D UTM zones often have the N hemisphere
>                 identifier to avoid ambiguity.
>
>                 Andreas
>
>                     Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:54:17 -0400
>                     From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com
>                     <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>>
>                     To: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu
>                     <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>>, X3D Graphics public
>                     mailing list
>                             <x3d-public at web3d.org
>                     <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>>
>                     Subject: [x3d-public] Invalid geoSystem values in
>                     X3D Resources Basic
>                             Geospatial examples.
>                     Message-ID:
>                     <5af77ea8.1c69fb81.7da1f.13e3 at mx.google.com
>                     <mailto:5af77ea8.1c69fb81.7da1f.13e3 at mx.google.com>>
>                     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>                     Don, These files contain "N" in geoSystem, which I
>                     believe is not valid, and should be removed
>                     (default is Northern Hemisphere,  in the standard,
>                     I believe. "S" can be specified?not in this case).
>
>                     Is there a tool which hasn?t been changed which is
>
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-- 
*Leonard Daly*
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
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