[x3d-public] Invalid geoSystem values in X3D Resources BasicGeospatial examples.

Sun May 13 16:12:32 PDT 2018

On Sun, May 13, 2018, 7:00 PM Leonard Daly <Leonard.Daly at realism.com> wrote:

> On 5/13/2018 9:58 AM, John Carlson wrote:
>
> You may want to resubmit your 3TM and Planet changes to Mantis.  I
> searched for 3TM and Planet in Mantis (All Projects) and got nothing
> significant back.
>
>
>
> However, I was denied access to:
>
>
>
> http://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/1671
>
>
> This is the Web3D Specification comment form. 1671 is the submission ID.
> Only a few people (Anita, myself) have access to the spec comment
> submissions. All submissions are emailed to the X3D WG list and appear
> there.
>

I didn't expect to gain access.   Is there an archive of the X3D wg list if
I deleted my email?

>
>
>
>
> Why?
>
>
>
> and there’s:
>
>
>
> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1215
>
>
> For reference this issue is titled as "25.2.3 Specifying a spatial
> reference frame - Inaccurate UTM example" and is listed as public.
>

Yes, seems unrelated.   I might have seen Doug's previous post to the
mailing list, but I'm not sure.   Nothing came through email recently if he
resubmitted it.

John

>
>
> Leonard Daly
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Not that I want to imagine writing schema for such a thing…that’s why I
> hope to get geoSystem into more reasonable shape in the Unified Object
> Model (we need volunteers, I think) before trying to do it in schema.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:16 AM
> *To: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] Invalid geoSystem values in X3D Resources
> BasicGeospatial examples.
>
>
>
> I think N should be OK, just as you say a redundant default.. I proposed
> several new things in the geoSystem field, submitted to spec comments a few
> months ago, so I hope your processor works on the new things if ever
> adopted.
>
> -Doug
>
> R,A,B,F,IF - ways to drectly specifiy the shape of the ellipsoid so other
> planet shapes and sizes could be modeled
>
> 3TM - similar to UTM (except 3degree zones, no false northing or easting,
> different central meridian scale factor .9999)
>
> ...
>
> I also proposed a Planet node - allows multiple planets in one scene
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 6:14 AM, John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The object model is expressive enough to list conforming values, yet
> accept others, but as far as I know (I may be wrong here), it is not
> expressive enough to express supported geoSystem values.   This is a
> problem.   How do we resolve it, and should we, if we are accepting other
> values?   Is it resolved in X3DJSAIL?  Should I get rid of Roy's JSON
> subschema for geoSystem?
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2018, 7:43 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I believe the purpose of schema is to support minimally acceptable files.
>  It should flag files which are questionable.   If a file can be brought
> into conformance easily, shouldn't it be?
>
>
>
> Yes, you should be able to ignore the results of the schema
> validation...at your own risk.
>
>
>
> What is the purpose of the X3D resources examples, but to show a good
> example practice?  Or are we testing tools to make sure certain values are
> acceptable?   If that's the case, then the schema should be updated for ALL
> versions.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2018, 7:31 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Then the version of the document should be upgraded to 4.0 or above, and
> the corresponding schema updated.   I can upgrade the schema for all
> versions, since it is hard coded into the schema generator.   But really we
> need support from the object model if possible.   Right now, I have to
> explicitly allow it for all versions, since I use stdin/stdout instead of
> files.  Does the unified object model specify a version # in its contents?
> When the unified object model supports "N" in a usable fashion, then I can
> code something into the schema, or delete the requirement to check
> geoSystem.
>
>
>
> Thanks, away from computer presently, or I would check.
>
>
>
> I don't see why Roy went to all the effort to create a schema, if we are
> going to ignore it?
>
>
>
> This applies in many areas...if we merely have supported values, yet
> others must be accepted, why is there a standard?
>
>
>
> I don't believe it's ambiguous in this case of X3D.   A missing "N" means
> Northern Hemisphere.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2018, 12:46 AM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.web3d.org/specifications/19775-1/V3.2/Part01/components/geodata.html#Specifyingaspatialreference
> <http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.2/Part01/components/geodata.html#Specifyingaspatialreference>
>
>
>
> lists the supported strings for the geoSystem MFString field.
>
>
>
> The prose choosing 'supported' over 'legal' or 'conforming' could be taken
> to mean that other than listed strings may be allowed to be supported as
> well by some browsers.
>
>
>
> However, previous discussions indicate that schemas are not sufficiently
> expressive to describe unknown but conforming string values.
>
>
>
> One resolution was to explicitly allow 'N' in upcoming X3D version, and
> perhaps silently allow it for 3.3.
>
>
>
> Outside of X3D UTM zones often have the N hemisphere identifier to avoid
> ambiguity.
>
>
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:54:17 -0400
> From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> To: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>,  X3D Graphics public mailing list
>         <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Subject: [x3d-public] Invalid geoSystem values in X3D Resources Basic
>         Geospatial examples.
> Message-ID: <5af77ea8.1c69fb81.7da1f.13e3 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Don, These files contain "N" in geoSystem, which I believe is not valid,
> and should be removed (default is Northern Hemisphere,  in the standard, I
> believe. "S" can be specified?not in this case).
>
> Is there a tool which hasn?t been changed which is
>
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>
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
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