[x3d-public] X3D Working Group minutes 28 OCT 2019: X3Dv4 issues review

Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) brutzman at nps.edu
Fri Oct 18 10:03:36 PDT 2019

Attendees: Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.

Event announcement:

[0] Web3D at 3D Body Tech Conference


"Web3D Consortium to present @3DBODYTECH International Conference and Exhibition on 3D Human Body Scanning and Processing Technologies in Lugano Switzerland, 22-23 October 2019. Interoperable ISO standard #X3D permits cross-discipline exchange of 3D data using the Web, across platforms and market domains."


The X3D Graphics Working Group addresses all X3D specification issues and coordinates the technical development of future improvements.

Members and invited experts are welcome.  We are an open organization. Please let us know if you have an important topic to present or discuss.

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Teleconference information appears below.


1. *Agenda check*.  What else, please?

Recent minutes:

[1] [x3d-public] X3D minutes 11 OCT 2019: Web3DUX, semantics progress, implementations status, mantis issues, texture/material, X3D-Edit

[2] [x3d-public] X3D minutes 4 OCT 2019: X3D-glTF review, defer Annotations, Layout component, #X3Dv4 implementations/issues update


2. *Carryover issue: material, textures, lighting*

> a. Good discussion on interplay between materials and textures is occurring on both the X3DOM and X_ITE mailing lists.  [...]
> * X3DOM conversation
>    https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/issues/993
> * X_ITE conversation
>    https://github.com/create3000/x_ite/issues/50

Is this driving to closure satisfactorily? Are precise changes expected for X3Dv4?

The X3D Architecture Specification must have consistent rendering well defined.  This is critical path forward, the X3D Working Group will refine or amend the X3Dv4 specification as needed to ensure consistent results.  This is a primary feature of X3D, especially for archival publication and sharing of models.

Getting X3D Appearance of materials and texture unambiguously defined and consistently implemented is very important, especially in preparation for addition of Physically Based Rendering (PBR) and correspondingly advanced lighting model to X3Dv4.


3. *Carryover issue: features and nodes*

> b. X3DOM and X_ITE have added some navigation types and other special features.  Some features will also be part of SAI, for example getting screen-space coordinates.  We need to expose these inside any X3D model so that authors work to best effect with HTML5.  These need to be considered and proposed publicly to get on the X3D Working Group agenda prior to 16 DEC 2019.
> The community has to live with the results... the community should *Step Up to Help* !!  This is a real opportunity for authors and implementers to speak out, helping to elevate important new candidate capabilities.

Nobody has stepped up yet.  Navigation types and other geometry nodes sure seem like low-hanging fruit.

Seems like a real opportunity for someone to unlock major latent improvements for future authors and users.

Am willing to spend meeting time to review once a suggestion list has been posted publicly.

4. *X3Dv4 Issues Review*

We will go though the Mantis issues tracker to assign tags to issues that need to be tracked as part of X3Dv4 efforts.

[3] Mantis Issue Tracker (requires 2 sets of member login)

[4] X3D Version 4 Overview

[5] X3Dv4 Highlights

[6] X3Dv4 Implementations Status

Mantis issues:  performed triage, made some changes.

You can now quickly see all X3Dv4 issues (with tag V4.0) by selecting the filter "X3Dv4" within mantis.  Screenshot attached.

Here is the current list.  What is missing?  CSV output attached.  No doubt some more issues also need to be marked.

Id	  	Summary
407	  	37.4.11 RigidBodyCollection -- Missing Definition
744	  	9.4.2 Inline - Security precaution
920	  	25.3.4 GeoLOD - child nodes require containerField='rootNode' which is uncommon
1092	  	7 Core component - MetadataSet or Metadata* node(s) as root nodes
1103	  	5.3.15 SFTime and MFTime - Describe two usages
1149	  	23.4.2 Collision - Child content insufficiently strict
1151	  	9.4.2 Inline - Inline is silent about head, component, unit, and meta statements
1234	  	CADFace field 'shape' has unusual name and causes unnecessary complexity, similar for CollidableShape
1242	  	3D texture formats listed in wrong location
1252	  	PointProperties node specification
1255	  	Projective Texture Mapping Component (PTM)
1257	  	Inline allowed to load additional model types
1258	  	Layout component needs to be consistently implemented
1259	  	Scanning profile needed?
1260	  	use of custom elements (x3d- prefix) for X3Dv4 in HTML5
1261	  	PointSet field for Normal node
1262	  	new field /refresh/ for Inline, ImageTexture etc.
1263	  	Logger capability

*Please let us know if your key issue is not present!*

Some specific work covered today:

* 1258: Layout component needs to be consistently implemented

* 1257 /Inline allowed to load additional model types/

> There have been multiple email threads regarding possibility of
> - loading STL, PLY (geometry meshes)
> - loading OBJ (geometry, material, texture)
> Some implementations exist, lossless conversion has also been demonstrated.
> OBJ is likely to be accepted by DICOM, Web3D is providing public comment.
* /PointProperies/ we made an additional note as follows.

> Possible issue: similar to LineProperties and FillProperties, should we add support for Markertype properties from ISO/IEC 9973 Items Register?
> * https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/-8916524/8916549/8916590/6208440/iso_items_register.html
> Noted small demand but also has wide use in meteorological domain.
> Can we add a markerType field that defaults to Dot (enumeration one) matching our current practice, or should make default value None (enumeration zero)?
> Dot: "specific details are implementation dependent"
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/-8916524/8916549/8916590/6208440/diagrams/mar001.html
> Dick believes the other PointProperty fields might well apply to markerType representations as well. Seems sensible.
> Suggested field signature:
>   SFInt32 markerType 1 [1..+infinity]
> Suggested prose:
> "The markerType field indicates a type of shape that can be applied."
> - add reference
> - Note that registry declares that support is optional, and Shape support level 5 specifies full support for all PointProperties fields.
> If we do not add markerType then content might still create icons to correspond but that would be a lot of work and not look consistent.
> There may be computational inefficiencies if complex shapes (crosses etc.) are used for thousands of points. On the other hand, a browser implementation does not have to render a shape if the distance is so great that only a point (or nothing) is visible to user.
> There are tradeoffs and no current demand but it does no harm to include.
> Meteorological terminology: octa
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octa
> Group is amicably split on whether to include in 4.0. Comment welcome.

5. *Teleconference Information*

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We reviewed these public minutes to confirm that no member-only information is present.

Lots of effort continues.  /Only 7 weeks left/ until we close the X3Dv4 contributions window on 16 DEC 2019.

[7] Sounds of doors slamming

... what an enjoyable set of sounds.  8)

Please consider how you are helping... there are things TODO for everyone.  Have fun with X3D!

all the best, Don
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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