[x3d-public] X3D Working Group Agenda 28 OCT 2019: consistent rendering, adding features and nodes from v3.3 players

Sun Oct 20 07:46:04 PDT 2019

Q. does v4 have an AR augmented reality backdrop image method, for use on a
smart phone with orientation sensor, so as you turn the device -and the
camera in the virtual scene- shots or video stream is captured with the
device camera and displaying as camera-aligned background?
I've heard others mention that scenario.
-Doug

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 3:34 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:

> FreeWRL inventory of supra-v3.3-spec nodes:
> (Castle) EffectPart
> (Castle) Effect
> GeoPlanet - when multiple planets, keeps geonodes organized
> GeoConvert - converts various geographic to xyz and/or vice versa,
> connecting/chaining/routing 2 allows converting from one geographic coord
> system to another.
> LineSensor - as discussed with Andreas
> PointSensor - ditto
> Teapot
> -Doug
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 3:13 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Freewrl inventory of implemented navigation modes:
>> Walk
>> Fly > yaw-z, XY, yaw-pitch, roll
>> Explore
>> Spherical (pan-zoom)
>> Turntable
>> LookAt
>> ViewAll
>> Distance - (changes examine distance with a screen-vertical drag)
>> ShiftKey (turns off sensors for pure navigation, like keyboard shift key
>> is supposed to, except without keyboard)
>>
>> Touch screen navigation specific:
>> Hover (up-drag for isOver when using touch screen)
>> Pedal (drags in-scene cursor separately so related to finger touch
>> position by an adjustable offset)
>> -Doug
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 1:35 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok.
>>>
>>> Yes, turntable navigation mode is really useful. It is probably the
>>> most popular mode in x3dom. It could be specified as a special case of
>>> EXAMINE, with the additional restriction that the vertical axis must
>>> stay aligned with the local Y-axis. Helicopter mode is similar but
>>> with FLY controls.
>>>
>>> Out of the other listed nodes, EnvironmentLight is important and
>>> relatively easy to implement in the shader. The light color is
>>> determined from a skybox/environment, relative to the eye-to-fragment
>>> angle. x3dom has it for PBR purposes.
>>>
>>> x3dom has BackdropBackground as a special case of Background. It is a
>>> simple static image and can be quite useful:
>>> https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/issues/971 . If only the backUrl field
>>> is populated, it is used as a static backdrop.
>>>
>>> Plane is used but I forget why it is there over Rectangle2D. The extra
>>> geometry nodes are rarely used. Teapot can be useful for testing
>>> across browsers but that is probably not a good reason to expand the
>>> spec.
>>>
>>> -Andreas
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 1:36 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>>> <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for feedback Andreas.
>>> >
>>> > On 10/18/2019 4:18 AM, Andreas Plesch wrote:
>>> > >> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 10:33:55 +0000
>>> > >> From: "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <brutzman at nps.edu>
>>> > >> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> > >> Cc: X3D Graphics Working Group <x3d at web3d.org>
>>> > >> Subject: [x3d-public] X3D Working Group Agenda 28 OCT 2019: X3Dv4
>>> issues review
>>> > >>
>>> > >> ==================================
>>> > >>[...]
>>> > >> 2. *Carryover issue: material, textures, lighting*
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> a. Good discussion on interplay between materials and textures is
>>> occurring on both the X3DOM and X_ITE mailing lists.  [...]
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> * X3DOM conversation
>>> > >>>     https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/issues/993
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> * X_ITE conversation
>>> > >>>     https://github.com/create3000/x_ite/issues/50
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Is this driving to closure satisfactorily? Are precise changes
>>> expected for X3Dv4?
>>> > >
>>> > > x3dom has been updated to be more spec. complaint and tries to detect
>>> > > if an image texture is greyscale from the image itself now.
>>> > >
>>> > > Michalis has good language for precise changes which would much
>>> > > simplify image texture and color mixing by always just multiplying.
>>> > > x3dom would likely support this change. Probably x-ite as well since
>>> > > it makes implementations and reasoning easier.
>>> > >
>>> > >> We must have consistent rendering well defined.
>>> > >
>>> > > Currently, it is not very well defined. The changes would make it
>>> more
>>> > > consistent with other graphics systems.
>>> >
>>> > Super.  Looking forward to compatible resolution between X3DOM, X_ITE,
>>> Castle Game Engine and then X3Dv4 PBR.
>>> >
>>> > You have our commitment to have the specification match consensus on
>>> repeatable authoring results for rendering.
>>> >
>>> > Hopefully other implementers are taking advantage of considering these
>>> discussion threads as well.
>>> >
>>> > >> ==================================
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 3. *Carryover issue: features and nodes*
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> b. X3DOM and X_ITE have added some navigation types and other
>>> special features.  Some features will also be part of SAI, for example
>>> getting screen-space coordinates.  We need to expose these inside any X3D
>>> model so that authors work to best effect with HTML5.  These need to be
>>> considered and proposed publicly to get on the X3D Working Group agenda
>>> prior to 16 DEC 2019.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The community has to live with the results... the community should
>>> *Step Up to Help* !!  This is a real opportunity for authors and
>>> implementers to speak out, helping to elevate important new candidate
>>> capabilities.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Nobody has stepped up yet.  Navigation types and other geometry
>>> nodes sure seem like low-hanging fruit.
>>> > >
>>> > > I gather this issue is mostly with respect to VR navigation ? I am
>>> not
>>> > > sure what this issue is about.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, X3DOM X_ITE and other browsers' documentation have noted some
>>> additional navigation types and additional geometry nodes.  For example:
>>> >
>>> >         https://www.x3dom.org/new-turntable-navigation-mode-in-x3dom
>>> >         https://www.x3dom.org/x3dom/example/x3dom_turntable.html
>>> > and
>>> >         X3DOM node index
>>> >         https://doc.x3dom.org/author/nodes.html
>>> >
>>> > includes Block, Dish, ImageGeometry, Mesh, Multipart, Nozzle, Plane,
>>> Pyramid, RectangularTorus, SlopedCylinder, Snout, SolidOfRevolution,
>>> SphereSegment, Torus, Viewfrustum.
>>> >
>>> >         X_ITE Supported Nodes
>>> >         http://create3000.de/x_ite/supported-nodes
>>> >
>>> > ... has BlendMode (not sure why).  Otherwise mostly appears to match
>>> the spec, but doubtless has some suggested changes or additions to X3D.
>>> >
>>> >         http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/x_ite/blendmode
>>> >
>>> > Instant Reality has numerous variants, not sure what might be
>>> repeatable/generalizable.  Perhaps PixelText, SolidText, SphereSegment,
>>> Torus, Plane, ImageGeometry, Teapot, SphericalHarmonics, Highlight,
>>> EnvironmentLight, BackdropBackground, GradientBackground, SolidBackground,
>>> PolygonBackground, SkydomeBackground, many others are also listed.
>>> >
>>> >         http://doc.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetypetree
>>> >
>>> > Am expecting Castle Game Engine and FreeWrl also have wish lists.
>>> >
>>> > Not looking for "node bloat" but many of these sound quite simple and
>>> might be good additions to X3Dvy author's palette of capabilities.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks everyone for considering the possibilities.  As before:
>>> >
>>> > >> Seems like a real opportunity for someone to unlock major latent
>>> improvements for future authors and users.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Am willing to spend meeting time to review once a suggestion list
>>> has been posted publicly.
>>> > all the best, Don
>>> > --
>>> > Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>> > Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>>  +1.831.656.2149
>>> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andreas Plesch
>>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20191020/f2f5368b/attachment-0001.html>