[x3d-public] Minutes X3D group 10 April 2020: X3D4 Specification, Mantis issues review

Don Brutzman brutzman at nps.edu
Sat Apr 11 14:34:42 PDT 2020 

1. *Summary*. Today's session focused on X3D Specification progress by reviewing the Mantis issue tracker and github procedures in detail.

Attendees: Vince Marchetti, Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Anita Havele, Don Brutzman

We met Friday 10 April 2020 0800-0940 for regular weekly meeting of X3D Working Group.

[1.1] X3D Graphics Working Group
       https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d

Confirmed that no member-only information is present in these minutes.  Noted that the information here:
- helps members pay full attention to the detailed improvement of X3D4,
- helps community understand and trust the diligence of the process, and
- helps everyone understand that Web3D Consortium offers serious member value!

Note that all Web3D zoom conference lines are now protected by password.

[1.2] Web3D Teleconference Information
       https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information

Have re-requested access to Mantis for following contributors:

> On 4/7/2020 11:54 AM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>> Webmaster, please add the following members to Mantis issue tracker:
>> 
>>      Athanasios Malamos <athanasios.malamos at gmail.com>
>> 
>>      Efi Lakka <efilakka at gmail.com>
>> 
>>      Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
>> 
>> Thanks for all support.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

2. *Process for Issue Resolution and Specification Editing*

Key links were posted earlier in the week to support broad review and feedback.

[2.1] Web3D Mantis Issues
       https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/main_page.php

[2.2] [x3d-public] X3D4 progress: Mantis issues and draft specification
       http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-April/012079.html

... which includes a .pdf listing of the current X3D4 issues list, which is a member-access resource.

[2.3] X3D4 issues list pdf (currently 104 issues as of Wednesday night)
       http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20200408/11251828/attachment-0001.pdf

Short summary of how Mantis issue tracking works:

a. key players are "assigned" to an issue for ownership (e.g. component authors)
b. we discuss and update cooperatively on the various mailing lists,
c. consensus is checked during working group teleconferences,
d. spec editors apply changes in github and document them,
e. such issues are marked 'resolved' with further review welcome,
f. issues may get reopened if needed for further resolution efforts,
g. for relevant issues, final assignment as 'closed' will only occur when final final specification review (preparing Committee Draft CD text for ISO) is completed for that issue.

We of course strive for clarity (most important), transparency and accountability in order to achieve greatest possible support and understanding for X3D4.

There are various workflow charts that also explain details of settings and process... thanks go to Roy Walmsley who originally crafted these.

[2.4] /Mantis Workflow/ describes how potential specification changes are described, considered, approved and documented.
       https://www.web3d.org/member/mantis-workflow

[2.5] /Mantis Definitions/ describe Mantis properties used for each issue.
       http://www.web3d.org/member/mantis-definitions

Dick and Don are the designated ISO/IEC specification editors.  We typically meet Tuesdays and Thursdays 09-1030 on the Web3D Zoom conference line to review and resolve issues formally, applying and pushing specification changes into Github version control.

After each resolution session, we run HTML Tidy to confirm documents are well formed, and then autogenerate zip files for both ISO and Web3D letterheads.  This is helpful for review because it doesn't appear to be possible to view such pages directly in Github website, typically we are committing/pushing/pulling locally.

The draft specifications are also member-access resource.  Any member who wants direct access can send us their github username to get permissions added.

Recommend that anyone interested in defining or implementing the X3D4 draft specification either clone the project or download the zip.  All comments welcome.

[2.6] Git: Web3D Consortium, X3D and HAnim Specifications
       https://github.com/Web3DConsortium

[2.7] Git zip of latest draft Web3D X3D4 Specification
       https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/raw/master/ISO-IEC19775/ISO-IEC19775-1/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1.Web3D.zip

Several components are being edited independently via pull requests.

[2.8] [WIP] PBR and other lighting and material upgrades
       Pull Request #8 opened on Nov 24, 2019 by michaliskambi
       https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/8

[2.9] Introduced Web Audio API components in X3D
       Pull Request #9 opened on Feb 21, 2020 by efilakka
       https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

3. *Issues Review*.  Next we looked over the Mantis list and updating specific issues.

To get to the issues, a two-step member login is necessary.  As above, members can request webmaster help to gain full access.

[3.1] Mantis: View Issues
       https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php

* then in upper left, select Project: /X3D/
* then in second row, after Simple Issue, select from list /X3Dv4/
* then sort by selecting 'ID' which gets same sorted list as the pdf table from last Wednesday [2.3].

- - - - -

a. We first looked at issue 1291 and corresponding HTML edits:

[3.2] Mantis issue 1291: pickable is independent of whether geometry is transparent or visible
       https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1291

> Picking can occur against transparent objects, sometimes used as a simple "proxy" overlay for performance. Picking can also occur against geometry within an intermediate Layer, regardless of whether it is visible.
> 
> Add clarifying sentences to the specification where appropriate.

> (spec call, brutzman and puk)
> 
> Appropriate prose has been added to 35.4.2 LayerSet and 38.3.1 X3DPickableObject. 

Here is a typical excerpt (from layout.html) showing changes.

<span class="proposed" title="nonvisible layers are pickable, Mantis 1291">Object picking according to the <i>pickable</i> field of a Layer node occurs even if that Layer is not visible.</span>

- - - - -

b. Right off the bat during this review we found something to improve, ordinal values for Layer ordering in a LayerSet, Nicholas noted that we need to align with HTML.  Examples and new issue:

[3.3] http://people.cs.vt.edu/~npolys/
       https://examples.x3dom.org/example/x3dom_objectAndText.xhtml

[3.4] Mantis 1292: numbering of z order of layers in LayerSet
       https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1292

> LayerSet ordinals may need to get aligned with HTML approach.
> 
> 35.4.2 LayerSet prose says "Ordinals start with 1" but bounds are zero.
> 
> Suggest changing 1 to 0. Must also align with HTML semantics if possible.

We discussed potential impact of losing backwards compatibility, always an important concern.  In this case, relatively infrequent use of X3D Layering Component compared to ubiquity of HTML5 deserves consideration on how to best achieve content compatibility.  Care must be taken, deserves further investigation.  If a change is proposed, then a process for upgrading X3D3 content to X3D4 also needs to be offered.

Nicholas kindly agreed to be 'assigned' for next steps here.  Upon recording and reviewing the relevant HTML5 reference, we should be able to refine our spec to best effect for stability and compatibility.

- - - - -

c. We next looked at StaticGroup, a node holding perennial design interest.

[3.4] Mantis 1290: StaticGroup implement X3DGroupingNode?
       https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1290

> StaticGroup has the same functionality and same interface signature as Group and X3DGroupingNode, with difference that adding and removing children is not allowed.
> 
> Further difference: the MFNode field 'children' has accessType initializeOnly vice inputOutput.
> Rather than being just a simple X3DChildNode, it makes more sense for StaticGroup to implement X3DGroupingNode with the following statement added:
> "StaticGroup addChildren and removeChildren fields have no effect."
> StaticGroup already declares "The StaticGroup node contains children nodes which cannot be modified."
We discussed how further refinement of X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM) might occur if this issue were accepted. Summary:

> Working Group review of the tradeoffs considers that this best remains isolated without change to the interface hierarchy, not being part of X3DGroupingNode. 

Resolved.  Appended 'no' to title for review clarity.

- - - - -

d. We next looked at displayBBox possible rename to bboxDisplay for clarity.  This proposed issue came about while applying all of the recent changes for X3DBoundedObject and /visible/ field throughout the specification, schema, X3DUOM, DOCTYPE, Java/Pyton/Ontology implementations, X3D Tooltips, documentation, etc.

[3.5] Mantis 1277 Provide displayBBox field on X3DBoundedObject nodes to display bounding boxes. possible rename?
       https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1277

related to the just-resolved and applied issue:

[3.6] Mantis 1271 add visible field to X3DBoundedObject
       https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1271

Many weeks of prior email discussion on X3DBoundedObject having /hidden/ or /visible/ field (similar) led into this topic... examining potential benefits to user interaction and author debugging, in comparison to relative cost of implementers to add a bounding box wireframe display capability.

Discussion showed concern that the displayBBox field (however named) might not be accepted by implementers.

I might have misinterpreted that this issue was already accepted and resolved already during the mass of traffic on the x3d-public mailing list. That needs to be checked, it was part of multiple issues being considered at one time.

So issue 1271 is reopened.  I will work on summing up and referencing prior discussions, allowing informed group re-review of this issue to ensure we are indeed at consensus and implementing/evaluating.

- - - - -

OK great, interesting session!  Recap: process fully demonstrated, one issue fix confirmed, one new issue identified, one issue rejected, one issue re-opened!  Full spectrum.  Together we are able to reconcile complex options clearly.

Making steady progress, working towards possible review release of completed X3D4 in July.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

4. Vince discussed yesterday's CAD Design Printing Scanning teleconference and possible metadata schemes for proteins.

[4.1] www.kshell.com/ns/protein3d/v01 Metadata Schema
       https://www.kshell.com/ns/protein3d/v01

Very interesting to see consistent metadata mapping requirements play out similarly in many distinct domains (CAD, medical, human animation, heritage, etc. etc.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

5. Next week: Audio and Spatial Sound, Efi Lakka and Athanasios Malamos.  Should be great!

Of related note: Web3D Consortium has the opportunity to nominate individual member(s) to work in W3C Spatial Audio group.

[5.1] [x3d-public] Fwd: Audio Working Group Charter Approved; Call for Participation
       https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-April/012060.html

Onward we go.  Have fun with X3D!  8)

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

More information about the x3d-public mailing list