[x3d-public] X3D minutes 8 May 2020: renewed HAnim progress, X3D4 geospatial assessment
Don Brutzman
brutzman at nps.edu
Sun May 17 19:53:49 PDT 2020
[corrected addresses: now sent to x3d-public and hanim mailing lists, all responses there please]
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1. *Welcome!*
Dick Puk, Mike McCann and I are pleased to announce a special focus for this week's X3D Working Group meeting: X3D4 Geospatial Component.
Attendees: Anita Havele, Mike McCann, Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Doug Sanden, Don Brutzman. Regrets Vince Marchetti and 2 individuals working on SPIDERS3D (which uses X3DOM).
Confirmed: no member-only information is present in these minutes.
We will meet at our regular time, 0800-0930 pacific Friday 8 May 2020. Zoom room coordinates are now linked via the Web3D Calendar. Note that all Web3D zoom conference lines are now protected by password.
[1.1] Web3D Teleconference Information
https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
[1.2] Web3D Calendar
https://www.web3d.org/calendar/month
https://www.web3d.org/calendar/x3d-graphics-working-group/2019-09-13t150000-2019-09-13t163000-2019-09-20t150000-2019-09
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2. *News: HAnim specification posted.*
2.1 *Email announcement and activity*
[2.1] Web3D HAnim Specifications publicly available
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-May/012562.html
Don and Joe Williams (and occasionally John Carlson) are working on updating all HAnim examples and then confirming tool support. Further reports to follow. We are hoping that a dynamic of weekly progress and growing set of revalidated/reverified example models will allow both players and authoring tools to confirm and update their capabilities.
[2.2] [x3d-public] Humanoid Animation and Medical Examples review, creation of new archive
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-May/012497.html
Of note is that all of the HAnim version numbers in the existing examples have to be reviewed and updated. We had multiple version numbers along the way - as appropriate, every model will be assessed and converted as 1.0 or 2.0 (or experimental/nonstandard). Please stand by.
Adding video clips to our production flow is also very important, so we will work on making that part of our weekly reports of progress. Multiple X3D players will be tested to confirm coverage. YouTube provides good landing spot for demos.
[2.3] YouTube: Web3D
https://youtube.com/c/Web3dConsortium
Once we get these existing examples recalibrated, we need better support from tools! Wondering about X3D HAnim tools from Korea? Myeong Won Lee, please advise.
We expect to have an update meeting within a month on X3D4 HAnim implementation progress.
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2.2 *HAnimMotion data structures*
Doug has posted a specification issue that recommends splitting some of the HAnimMotion data structures in a way that permits DEF/USE splitting and referencing.
While the nodes in HAnim 2.0 specification are now fixed and stable for some time, we do have flexibility in how these get implemented in X3D4.
We have had similar DEF/USE challenges with some other data structures that might benefit similarly (for example index arrays). Therefore we will plan on a separate X3D meeting on this specific issue.
---
2.3 Mantis access issues still unresolved. Further work remains needed to get everyone will go into Mantis.
Thanks for mantis administration efforts so far. We may need another Mantis administrator to help resolve this since it repeatedly seems so difficult to get new members connected.
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3. *X3D4 Geospatial*
References:
[2.0] X3D Architecture, clause 25, Geospatial component
https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/geodata.html
Also in github, we referred to that during the call.
[2.1] Web3D Geospatial Working Group
https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/geospatial
"The Geospatial (formerly X3D-Earth) Working Group uses the Web architecture, XML languages, and open protocols to build a standards-based X3D geospatial specification usable by governments, industry, scientists, academia, and the general public."
[2.2] geospatial -- Geospatial (formerly X3D Earth) working group mailing list
https://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/geospatial_web3d.org
[2.3] Mantis Issue Tracker
https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
Goal: build and review a list of possible improvements to geospatial nodes and fields for X3D4. This is an excellent opportunity for recognizing an achievable set of improvements and adding them.
Use cases, relevant standards and motivations are important to capture in each case so that we correctly solving the right problems in practical ways. We have excellent exemplars in major applications such as STOQS, 3D Blacksburg and SPIDERS3D.
Not a goal: major restructuring or changing in ways that are not reachable in near term. Nevertheless we might ensure that achieving priority tasks in near term "sets the stage" for effective follow-on work.
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Potential changes to consider:
a. *Binary gpu formats, data reduction and streaming.* Interesting discussion points listed here:
- SRC does have both binary format (indirect data compression) and streaming solutions, with increasing practice continuing today with X3DOM.
- glTF includes compression (Microsoft DRACO) and is becoming supported in X3D4 but does not have a streaming solution.
- GeoLOD can only transition one quad level at a time? Too hard to proceed with zooming "space to face" at ground level? (Primary challenge exposed by X3D Earth project) Avoid doing that?? Similar challenge for LOD?
- High to low transitions, e.g. LOOKAT jumping to some view far below. Combined client/server approach?
- other tiling formats, such as OGC or Cesium?
- additional alternative approaches?
- workflows, both in preparation and in real-time exploration
- Edge normals to succinctly allow stitching together large quads without "seam" visual artifacts.
- Triangulated Irregular Network (TIN) support. Best practices such datasets for adapting to X3D, e.g. IFS or triangle nodes?
- Progressive mesh refinement
- Tool support targets: Blender, QGIS, OGC GeoServer, others?
- SEDRIS capabilities of interest?
- Photogrammetry and remote sensing support, machine vision applications, etc.
- Image texture registration and encouraging alternative imagery formats
[2.4] QGIS Free and Open Source Geographic Information System
https://qgis.org/en/site
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QGIS
"QGIS is a free and open-source cross-platform desktop geographic information system application that supports viewing, editing, and analysis of geospatial data." Wikipedia
[2.5] OGC GeoServer open-source server for sharing geospatial data
http://geoserver.org
Identified near-term priorities:
- confirm that each node works, or is at least well-defined and being used.
- streaming meshes
- good workflow and tools for creating X3D geospatial content
- engaging community and professionals, growing activity
- simple fixes! regain momentum.
Perhaps we need to have a Mantis party next week for priority issues, ensuring that each geospatial priority is satisfactorily stated and documented. What happens next?
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b. split MFString geoSystem parameters for better parsing and referencability, i.e. rather than a single MFString with complex parsing requirements, perhaps splitting into separate fields is better handled. This can be accomplished without loss of data, for example:
- geoSystemSpatialReferenceFrame
- geoSystemEarthEllipsoid
- geoSystemParameters
Good discussions that indeed the current means of expressing geoSystem might be improved so that information is more accessible without convoluted scripting.
TODO: Mantis issue for capturing content with better parsing ability.
Forward compatibility: consider whether future approaches are not thwarted.
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c. define optional support for WebMercator datasets (already implemented in FreeWRL) - seems sensible, even though data saved in this format has some well-understood accuracy issues at higher latitudes. Will post Mantis issue. Any others?
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d. refactor/deprecation GeoMetadata to instead align with MetadataSet structures being used in CAD Design Printing Scanning, Heritage, HAnim, etc. This will allow metadata search tools and also X3D Semantic Web usefulness. Translation would be straightforward and lossless.
TODO: Mantis issue on how this is accomplished, future is likely potential adoption for a more regular X3D4.
e. confirm "un-deprecation" of GeoOrigin. Yes, confirmed we will retain GeoOrigin since it is needed for smaller devices that only have single-precision floating point numeric processing.
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e. Extended spatial reference frames for different planets (Dick Puk proposal). Dick reports:
[2.6] [x3d] Emailing: IIGeoOriginPositionPaper_2009_03r1.pdf
https://www.web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2020-May/007880.html
Confirm no member-only information: correct.
Draft specification prose for modified Geospatial Component extracted and attached.
Available at link: TODO, Dick please advise.
> Please find attached a white paper that describes an enhanced geospatial component that supports all of the Spatial Reference Frames described in the ISO/IEC 18026 Spatial Reference Model standard. Also attached is a proposed X3D spec amendment (i.e., a change document) that would add this capability in a backwards compatible way. Note that this enhancement supports arbitrary SRFs and is not limited to the Earth-specific SRFs currently in X3D. Examples o how such SRFs might be used include:
>
> · Accurate depictions of space travel in our solar system and beyond
>
> · Navigation on any planet in our solar system including Mars
>
> · Navigation on any moon (e.g., Titan)
>
> · Navigation on generic planetary bodies such as those recently discovered in other solar systems
>
> · More precise navigation on the Earth.
>
> Please review these documents for discussion at a forthcoming X3D WG Friday telecom. Note that all of the parameters are readily available in ISO/IEC 18026, available for free at https://www.sedris.org/ .
Doug has an example of two planets, will post separately about it.
This has a number of nodes and is involved, which has been an impediment for prior implementation. Nevertheless it seems to fill a long-term need. At a minimum, we should review in detail to ensure that X3D4 is doing anything that might hamper continued downstream efforts.
Some additional discussion about SEDRIS standard and open source.
[2.7] SEDRIS - Environmental Data Representation & Interchange
https://sedris.org
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f. Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) standards alignment - deferred topic.
[2.8] https://www.ogc.org
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So, we got through a lot of issues today. Looks like some work on a handful of issues have every prospect of successful integration in X3D4 Geospatial component. Continued activity expected.
All contributions, feedback and improvements to these minutes are welcome.
Thanks everyone for your efforts. Good to have you back in a meeting with us Mike!
Have fun with X3D4 geospatial scenes! 8)
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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